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Charlottesville

fishonjazz said:
Why should I have a discussion with you? What's the point? We never end in resolution or understanding. We just go back and forth and back and forth and I quite frankly i don't have the time to waste.

Hell, I don't even know what we are duscussing/arguing. Neither of us think this and hilter are the same thing. We both think these people have the right to protest.

I simply saw people saying that violence isn't the answer and that ignoring these people will make them go away. I think those are certainly possible.

I simply offered another possibility..... that sometimes violence is the answer and does work and is necessary. Sometimes ignoring a problem makes the problem bigger, bolder, and more problematic.

What is the answer in this instance? I have no idea and never claimed to. Simply offered a different idea to the whole violence doesn't work, non violence does work idea.

And really, I'm very busy at work and shouldn't even be on my phone and don't have time for any more of this discussion so I'm done for now. Hopefully that is acceptable to you. If not, sorry but I'm not responding anymore.
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See, this is much better.

Thank you.

And discussing isn't about winning or losing, it's just about discussing.
 
fishonjazz said:
Why should I have a discussion with you? What's the point? We never end in resolution or understanding. We just go back and forth and back and forth and I quite frankly i don't have the time to waste.
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i know this is not a repsonse to me,, but i would like to say something in general
if we cant have a discussion it leaves 2 avenues. violence or we leave each other the f alone!

politically most people cant have a discussion anymore, and instead of leaving each-other alone. we start to belittle each other, do ad hominem attacks and in real live it starts to lead to violence. good thing most people on here have 1 thing in common the love of jazz basketball, and in a way we respect and discuss jazz related stuff. with that if we agree or not. for example i say gobert is best jazz player ever you say stockton is best player ever. at the end of the day it does not impact our lives in a significant way.

but with politics depending on if my viewpoint has more support whether my viewpoint is right or wrong. it tends to be forced on you. and vice versa!
so we either stop talking about politics which i have been doing less off these days(well in this thread it reignited it in me.
or we start attacking each other. calling communist nazi russian biggot stupid homophobe etc.
i also stopped talking about politics because the dow jones and other stocks are going through the roof and i am making lots of monies :D.



let the season begin let politics take a backside. lets just say live and let live! i can say whatever the f i want, you can say whatever the f you want. but your rights end where other peoples property and live begins.

do not initiate force. is this unreasonable?
 
Rubashov said:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Where will you draw the line?
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when they actually come for people!


so far they have not come for ANYONE!
 
BabyPeterzz said:
I understand how you;re trying to process this within the law. Good on you, but I find it cowardly. Sorry to offend, I know I am, but I have to. My conscience does not allow for even the tiniest acceptance of this type of speech, after all we've been through. I will not tolerate it, I will not allow it to victimize me or anyone else, and I will fight (non-violently) those who try to carve out any piece of society for these mongrels.
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i could sya the same for communist and socialist speech.

after what those people have done in china, soviet union, Cuba and north korea now Venezuela!

so who decide what we can tolerate or not!

i cannot tolerate those ideologies, because just like the 25 point plan of the national socialist of the 30's and 40's those other regimes are just as bad!


so you decide what speech is tolerable and what not? communism is just as intolerable to me and certain people as national zoialism, democratic sozialism and Italian fascist sozialism.


so you wanna force what you find intolerable on others?
 
Harambe said:
There's nothing they(white supremacists) don't have that they did have that they should continue to have exclusively. But they say different.

But we've gotten to the point where protests/counter protests are going to happen until something changes. One group needs to come around. We'd both like to see it peaceably, but that's not the direction is going.

What are we left with? While some will try to consider better ways to convince, the scared and stupid will start physically acting. And it'll just be a matter of time they're all in it.
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how about we start enforcing laws to the fuillest extent. a nazi says **** jews. a person walksup to him and punches him in the mouth.

saying **** jews is not illegal in the USA, so the nazi as much as i hate to admit it did nothing illegal. and the puncher did something illegal!
we prosecute the puncher for putting hands on someone else!

once people are getting prosecuted for violence this **** will stop. their will be no escalation of violence. because we now have the 1st death. in what my opinion started with anti-fa by all accounts they started with violence against right wing speakers.
 
Stoked said:
It's not cowardly at all. Not even remotely. But I can see how it looks that way.

As for the bold, good!!! Supporting free speech does not mean maintaining silence or feigning agreement. Far from it. It means speaking your mind IMO. YOu (generally speaking) do not have to accept it. I have spoken up before, forcibly, and will so again when I encounter this disgust irl.

But if they are marching, holding a rally or whatever I will not try to shut it down by violence. If I am there I will chant, hold signs, protest and contest but non violently. I won't start the fight. Now if they instigate the violence than I will defend myself.

This is where I feel Trump went wrong, was there violence at this protest? Absolutely. But I feel that in this case it was started by only one side. Then further escalated by that side with the car attack. He should have called them out by name the first time.

Attempts to calm down the growing trend can come later.
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Have to say Stoked has the best of it in this thread. He is spot on correct.
 
vlad tepes said:
After reading most of the thread's messages to my wallachian people and based on the old eatern-european medicine tradition and the opinions of our beloved long bearded orthodox priests we came to the next conclusion :

- this board suffers from vaginatis :
- vaginatis is a socially deadly disease caused from the lack of eating red animal meat (we have plenty in our refrigerators, especially bear meat). it is characterized by the manifestation of sores on the skin in the form of tiny vaginas. if it remains untreated the patient may turn into a giant walking puhsi.
other symptoms include: hugging trees, joining cults of vaeritas equitas, hypocrisy, visiting art galleries and park statues, playing guitar on the sidewalk, becoming a bichy sluut or an annoying a-hole.

also special greetings jazzfanz, from our spy disguised as a tranny pinko :

Statue_of_Lenin_Seattle.jpg


'' from Seattle with love''

signed Boris The Soviet Love Hammer

P.S. please read this message out loud in a Borath accent ! thanks
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How was your stay in Visegrad?
 
Dutch would have people believe that Antifa started the violence in Charlottesville. Yet, according to members of the clergy, who were there to oppose the message of hate by white nationalists and Neo Nazis, the Antifa actually protected those members of the clergy from harm by Unite the Right marchers. They did not start the violence at all. Here are some witness statements:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ft_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

"I am a pastor in Charlottesville, and antifa saved my life twice on Saturday. Indeed, they saved many lives from psychological and physical violence—I believe the body count could have been much worse, as hard as that is to believe. Thankfully, we had robust community defense standing up to white supremacist violence this past weekend. Incredibly brave students held space at the University of Virginia and stared down a torch-lit mob that vastly outnumbered them on Friday night. On Saturday, battalions of anti-fascist protesters came together on my city’s streets to thwart the tide of men carrying weapons, shields, and Trump flags and sporting MAGA hats and Hitler salutes and waving Nazi flags and the pro-slavery “stars and bars.”
 
"get ****ed, subhuman trash".- SS Sturmbannführer to Russian partisan before execution, 1944.
 
Meet the clergy who stared down white supremacists in Charlottesville:

https://thinkprogress.org/clergy-in-charlottesville-e95752415c3e/

"It wasn’t long before the white nationalists made their move.

“A group of white supremacists broke through our line with shields,” Wispelwey said. “Some of them were screaming and spitting slurs [as they] physically shoved clergy aside with their shields.”

Clergy rearranged their positions to try and hold off another wave of white nationalists. But when the “the alt-right instigated their violence” down the street against counter-protesters, a group of Antifa intervened. The clergy took moment as a chance to disperse.

“That’s when Antifa saved our lives,” he said."

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So much for the misguided efforts, led by Trump, and on this forum by Dutchjazzer, to place blame on Antifa...
 
Red said:
Dutch would have people believe that Antifa started the violence in Charlottesville. Yet, according to members of the clergy, who were there to oppose the message of hate by white nationalists and Neo Nazis, the Antifa actually protected those members of the clergy from harm by Unite the Right marchers. They did not start the violence at all. Here are some witness statements:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ft_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

"I am a pastor in Charlottesville, and antifa saved my life twice on Saturday. Indeed, they saved many lives from psychological and physical violence—I believe the body count could have been much worse, as hard as that is to believe. Thankfully, we had robust community defense standing up to white supremacist violence this past weekend. Incredibly brave students held space at the University of Virginia and stared down a torch-lit mob that vastly outnumbered them on Friday night. On Saturday, battalions of anti-fascist protesters came together on my city’s streets to thwart the tide of men carrying weapons, shields, and Trump flags and sporting MAGA hats and Hitler salutes and waving Nazi flags and the pro-slavery “stars and bars.”
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Kindly take your fake news elsewhere. This place has no welcome sign for spin.
 
**** this ignorant, game-playing president. It is absolutely pathetic that someone can be so goddamn ignorant, to fail to realize that he will never face the consequences of what he says or does. The most protected man in the world should aim for everyone else to be the same, not saying whatever he wants because he can - that's what spoiled kids do.

I've never thought of the president as more than a cog in a systemically-flawed machine, but this dude blows chunks.
 
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