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Conference Finals

MoreFeasts said:
Most of the Heat flops caused a change in possession, which is way important than just free throws.
Good use of statistics there Spycam to support a belief unjustified by actually watching the games.
Just because Indiana got more free throws does not prove that the Heat did not flop more , foul more, and get away with more dirty plays.
or that the refs didn't help them win.
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Where did I ever state a belief? I showed a stat and gave virtually no further analysis on it.

If you went back and counted all the calls Miami got away with vs that of Indiana, I would believe you. But until you do that, I'm not going to simply take your word for it. I don't think anyone who watched the game (accept you, apparently) would say the refs won Miami this game.
 
spycam1 said:
Where did I ever state a belief? I showed a stat and gave virtually no further analysis on it.

If you went back and counted all the calls Miami got away with vs that of Indiana, I would believe you. But until you do that, I'm not going to simply take your word for it. I don't think anyone who watched the game (accept you, apparently) would say the refs won Miami this game.
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You have stated your beliefs throughout this thread, including this very same post where you ask me where you stated a belief.
It does not sound like you watched the game, or have any interest in a fair analysis.
 
I've watched thousands of basketball games, but I don't think I've ever seen one team flop 6 times in 4 minutes, and draw a call on 5 of them. The Pacers were on a run before that, and looked to be about to regain the lead.
 
MoreFeasts said:
I've watched thousands of basketball games, but I don't think I've ever seen one team flop 6 times in 4 minutes, and draw a call on 5 of them. The Pacers were on a run before that, and looked to be about to regain the lead.
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.....I don't really have a problem with flopping, per'se! It's the only mechanism in place to counteract the total disregard for palming and traveling the defensive player has on the offensive player. But when the most flagrant palmers and travelers of the ball are also the best floppers, well then, where do you draw the line? Wade generally gets every call driving to the basket as does his buddy Lebron! Let them palm, travel and give them flopping calls, no wonder they're shooting 55% for the season!
 
It's not just Wade and LeBron though. The series of flops I was referencing started with 3 in a row from Battier. Allen did one too. I forget who got the 5th call. Wade did the one that they didn't call.
 
MoreFeasts said:
https://slumz.boxden.com/f16/flopping-has-gotten-out-fu-king-control-1930683/

Here spycam , proof that I am not the only one who saw this.
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I don't have time to read that at the moment, but yes, flopping is certainly still a problem.

If you look at the Pacers forum, you'll find many levelheaded fans that can discern Miami simply outplayed them in game 3. And while the refs falling for the flops certainly didn't help the Pacers, it was not the source of their downfall.

A few quotes from Pacer posters after game 3:

We did not lose because of flopping.

We lost because our defense did not bother showing up
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As I said in the game thread, the Heat are just too talented.
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Miami played an almost perfect game, we played average or a bit below.
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The fact this team came out flat at home with a sold out, rabid crowd for a game 3 with the series tied at 1 is utterly baffling.
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We missed a week's worth of defensive assignments in the first half alone. For whatever reason the team didn't bring it defensively and Paul George didn't bring it offensively. We gotta hit our free throws.
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They played a great game. But we were more bad than they were good.
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I keep seeing these posts about how we're the better team. I don't understand how such an assertion can be made until we actually beat the Heat.
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spycam1 said:
I don't have time to read that at the moment, but yes, flopping is certainly still a problem.

If you look at the Pacers forum, you'll find many levelheaded fans that can discern Miami simply outplayed them in game 3. And while the refs falling for the flops certainly didn't help the Pacers, it was not the source of their downfall.

A few quotes from Pacer posters after game 3:
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So you admit you were wrong, and I was not the only person who saw this. Now your point is that it doesn't matter if the Heat flop on every single possession and get a call for it almost every time in the 3rd quarter of the 3rd game just as the Pacers are coming back, that the Pacers should have beat them anyway, right?

People say those obligatory things to avoid the wrath of the knee jerk reactors. There are always morons who can't see what is front of there face. The rest of them probably work for the NBA or ESPN or one of the Teams PR Departments, or are relatives of players. Heck, half of them probably didn't even watch the games. You didn't watch the game, did you?

So the truth is, if the Miami Heat don't cheat and flop and play dirty and still get crazy calls all over the place, then the Pacers are on par with them. It's been proven for the last year and a half. Watch the games why don't you, before forming your beliefs?
 
MoreFeasts said:
So you admit you were wrong, and I was not the only person who saw this. Now your point is that it doesn't matter if the Heat flop on every single possession and get a call for it almost every time in the 3rd quarter of the 3rd game just as the Pacers are coming back, that the Pacers should have beat them anyway, right?

People say those obligatory things to avoid the wrath of the knee jerk reactors. There are always morons who can't see what is front of there face. The rest of them probably work for the NBA or ESPN or one of the Teams PR Departments, or are relatives of players. Heck, half of them probably didn't even watch the games. You didn't watch the game, did you?

So the truth is, if the Miami Heat don't cheat and flop and play dirty and still get crazy calls all over the place, then the Pacers are on par with them. It's been proven for the last year and a half. Watch the games why don't you, before forming your beliefs?
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I watched the game.

I have never denied Miami's flopping. I have merely suggested that perhaps the officiating is not as one sided as you seem to believe.

My main point is, and always was, that Miami would have won game 3 regardless of questionable calls, and even a great deal of Pacer fans agree.
 
Huh, this is like pulling teeth. Why didn't you say you watched the game yesterday? So you didn't notice all the flops, or you don't care, whatever. I suppose you didn't notice all of the flops in game 1 either. How about all the dirty plays? Battier is clearly one of the dirtiest flopping players in the league, yet the refs just love him for some reason, while Indiana's 6th man can't buy a foul when he's getting mugged. Indiana gets free throws because Miami can't guard Hibbert or West or even their backups without fouling or flopping. Miami shoots 60% to start game 3, because Indiana players can't get close to a Heat player half the time without the refs blowing a whistle.
 
spycam1 said:
I watched the game.
My main point is, and always was, that Miami would have won game 3 regardless of questionable calls..
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you don't know that... Indiana was pulling back in the 3rd quarter, and Miami flops for 5 calls at least in a short period of time.... You don't know. I don't believe you unless YOU go back and count up all the calls over the course of the game. I think you are biased.
 
Right now, if the refs just didn't fall for Battier's flops and dirty plays in game 1 and game 3, even forgetting the edge that LeBron and Wade and Allen and the rest of the Heat get from the refs over the entire Pacer's squad, just take away Battier's flops and dirty plays and extra calls alone, assume everything else stays the same, the Pacers could easily be up 3 zip.
 
Here is what someone wrote who is not working for the NBA:

"During the last 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter of the game tonight, someone on the Heat flopped on literally every !!ing possession! Some of the fake[..] acting was successful, while other phony attempts were not. Often times the successful flops get the most attention, but Shane Battier should get fined $100k just for his !![..] flopping in the 3rd quarter alone. Wade had a play where he dove out of bounds without being touched trying to get a foul called. Lebron had one where he flailed around like a spastic retard when Paul George moved his elbow nearby his face. Ray Allen flopped hard on a pick set by Hibbert which was a standard, by the book screen where he had both feet planted, resulting in an offensive foul that didnt even get a replay. All these examples happened in a span of less than 5 minutes, and I'm forgetting a couple."

( 2 that he is forgetting is that Shane flopped 3 freaking times in a row! 3 times. He should be thrown out of the league, but the refs love him, fall for everything he does, like punching people in the head to get a lose ball in game 1)
 
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MoreFeasts said:
Right now, if the refs just didn't fall for Battier's flops and dirty plays in game 1 and game 3, even forgetting the edge that LeBron and Wade and Allen and the rest of the Heat get from the refs over the entire Pacer's squad, just take away Battier's flops and dirty plays and extra calls alone, assume everything else stays the same, the Pacers could easily be up 3 zip.
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....the Pacers got bull-whipped in game 3. The Heat shot too high of a percentage to lose. Things should be different tonight. At least we all hope so.
 
carolinajazz said:
....the Pacers got bull-whipped in game 3. The Heat shot too high of a percentage to lose. Things should be different tonight. At least we all hope so.
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They shoot a higher percentage because they get more calls in their favor. They can't stop West, but the refs can. That's why Lebron is shooting layups, while West has to settle for long jumpers, or risk drawing more offensive fouls.
 
3.5 minutes into game 4, already 3 flops , 2 called, and one cheap foul favoring the Heat, otherwise Indiana would be up 15 nothing.
 
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