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Conspiracy Theory Corner

Even if the Pelicans are not trading Ingram, we know two things. They need a C and they need to get under the tax.

One route could be trading Missi/Hawkins+JRE+picks for Kessler. That would put them just under the tax. How do we feel about Hawkins or Missi?

The other route would be trading CJ. I had thought about a three way trade with LAL. CJ to LAL. Collins or Kessler+Clarkson to NOP and salary+stuff back to UTA.
 
KqWIN said:
Even if the Pelicans are not trading Ingram, we know two things. They need a C and they need to get under the tax.

One route could be trading Missi/Hawkins+JRE+picks for Kessler. That would put them just under the tax. How do we feel about Hawkins or Missi?

The other route would be trading CJ. I had thought about a three way trade with LAL. CJ to LAL. Collins or Kessler+Clarkson to NOP and salary+stuff back to UTA.
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So... I have gotten the impression that we aren't trading Walker... and TJ seemed to say we will focus on youth (which would mean no BI in my interpretation).

Sorry to throw cold water on the conspiracy corner. I think we are headed for a completely boring use of space.

To answer the question. I loved Hawkins last year. When I watched him in summer league up close I kinda changed my opinion. Not just makes and misses but can't get any separation on or off ball.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
So... I have gotten the impression that we aren't trading Walker... and TJ seemed to say we will focus on youth (which would mean no BI in my interpretation).

Sorry to throw cold water on the conspiracy corner. I think we are headed for a completely boring use of space.

To answer the question. I loved Hawkins last year. When I watched him in summer league up close I kinda changed my opinion. Not just makes and misses but can't get any separation on or off ball.
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Hawkins I think is just ok....I think he will improve as a shooter, but he really only has one way to help a team. Shooting is valuable, he doesn't do much else. I have no opinions on Missi other than that his numbers in college were pretty underwhelming. NOP could trade their 25 this year or the more favorable of MIL/NOP in 2027. One of those picks and Missi/Hawkins could be ok value for Walker.

I think a Collins/McCollum (to LAL) swap could still happen. It would probably result in us bringing back Rui and DLO....I'm not really sure if that improves our situation much, but in theory we could waive DLO and have alittle less money on the books next season. We could probably get some kind of stuff out of that deal, but most likely crappy stuff.

Ingram reported to not be going anywhere, so not thinking about that possibility anymore. But one way or another NOP will get another C and get under the tax.
 
KqWIN said:
Hawkins I think is just ok....I think he will improve as a shooter, but he really only has one way to help a team. Shooting is valuable, he doesn't do much else. I have no opinions on Missi other than that his numbers in college were pretty underwhelming. NOP could trade their 25 this year or the more favorable of MIL/NOP in 2027. One of those picks and Missi/Hawkins could be ok value for Walker.

I think a Collins/McCollum (to LAL) swap could still happen. It would probably result in us bringing back Rui and DLO....I'm not really sure if that improves our situation much, but in theory we could waive DLO and have alittle less money on the books next season. We could probably get some kind of stuff out of that deal, but most likely crappy stuff.

Ingram reported to not be going anywhere, so not thinking about that possibility anymore. But one way or another NOP will get another C and get under the tax.
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I've heard whispers that Walker isn't available unless its a big return. Hawkins and a pick is good. I wouldn't say its big though. I'd do it as it helps push the tank odds but doubt they would.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I've heard whispers that Walker isn't available unless its a big return. Hawkins and a pick is good. I wouldn't say its big though. I'd do it as it helps push the tank odds but doubt they would.
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Walker is pretty much there only option to get a good, cost effective C.....but if he's off the table, they probably got to look at trading CJ for a center. In that case, Collins may be near the front of the line. Ayton kind of makes sense, but he makes more than CJ does not take them out of the tax.

Maybe they just roll with Theis/Missi/Karlo and find a way to duck the tax another way....but the elephant in the room that's obvious to everyone is that they have such a glaring hole in their roster after moving a lot of stuff for DJ.
 
KqWIN said:
Walker is pretty much there only option to get a good, cost effective C.....but if he's off the table, they probably got to look at trading CJ for a center. In that case, Collins may be near the front of the line. Ayton kind of makes sense, but he makes more than CJ does not take them out of the tax.

Maybe they just roll with Theis/Missi/Karlo and find a way to duck the tax another way....but the elephant in the room that's obvious to everyone is that they have such a glaring hole in their roster after moving a lot of stuff for DJ.
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With CJ... he is kinda the Zion whisperer. NO is stuck stuck... so they might offer something considered big. They may also try and ride this out. The BI trade will absolutely send the Stephen A types spiraling with the low return. Unless he comes in and balls out and is healthy for 20 games... but then the @infection principle will apply.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I've heard whispers that Walker isn't available unless its a big return.
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As it should be. You don't just give up on young, talented players just so you can marginally affect the number of losses a bit (if Kessler adds to the wins more than marginally, then we should especially not give up on him).

By the way, can you say more about where these whispers are coming from. Didn't we hear a while back this same thing from @Tony Jones?
 
idiot said:
As it should be. You don't just give up on young, talented players just so you can marginally affect the number of losses a bit (if Kessler adds to the wins more than marginally, then we should especially not give up on him).

By the way, can you say more about where these whispers are coming from. Didn't we hear a while back this same thing from @Tony Jones?
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It's been all over. It's not whispers. They are saying at least two first round picks.
 
idiot said:
As it should be. You don't just give up on young, talented players just so you can marginally affect the number of losses a bit (if Kessler adds to the wins more than marginally, then we should especially not give up on him).

By the way, can you say more about where these whispers are coming from. Didn't we hear a while back this same thing from @Tony Jones?
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Tony has said it or something similar publicly. The other whispers were other people... and they all may be tying back to the same Jazz source. It was relayed to me when discussing things on twitter that the Jazz likely value Walker more than what I was indicating. Nothing super juicy... sorry. And yes not much different than what Tony has said as well.
 
KqWIN said:
Even if the Pelicans are not trading Ingram, we know two things. They need a C and they need to get under the tax.

One route could be trading Missi/Hawkins+JRE+picks for Kessler. That would put them just under the tax. How do we feel about Hawkins or Missi?

The other route would be trading CJ. I had thought about a three way trade with LAL. CJ to LAL. Collins or Kessler+Clarkson to NOP and salary+stuff back to UTA.
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My Pelicans-fan mate is certain they'll trade CJ back to Portland for Ayton (or some other Portland C I forget).
 
I would attach one of this years picks to both JCs for Ingram. I seriously doubt we want to draft 3 guys again, soo just trade the worst of the 3. But who knows. It is a small risk of losing him in FA, but even then that is a lot of salary to get rid of for us. Although I doubt they want Clarkson, but that might be the cost to trade with us. If there is no pick we can just straight up trade Collins for Ingram. I am not sure the cap situation with that though.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I would attach one of this years picks to both JCs for Ingram. I seriously doubt we want to draft 3 guys again, soo just trade the worst of the 3. But who knows. It is a small risk of losing him in FA, but even then that is a lot of salary to get rid of for us. Although I doubt they want Clarkson, but that might be the cost to trade with us. If there is no pick we can just straight up trade Collins for Ingram. I am not sure the cap situation with that though.
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I'd _much_ rather use that extra pick to move up or get some future pick or whatever.
 
Honestly I think the Jazz, if there was any discussion at all, probably asked for a pick and Ingram for Walker/Collins. Giving up 6 years of Walker for what could be 1 year of Ingram is risky.

Walker has up to 7 more years (likely 6) of team control. He's flawed enough that I dont think he will get a huge 2nd contract and will be a nicely priced starter quality, but ideally a lower minutes (like 25ish mpg) type center on his 2nd contract.

I really dont agree that we should trade him just to lose. He's a nice player to have for when you want to turn up the winning sliders. I am interested in Rocco from Australia as a better center prospect than Kessler (still think Malauch is extremely overrated), but I'm not 100% certain of that and overall it would be better to not use a higher pick on a limited center prospect if you already have that guy.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Honestly I think the Jazz, if there was any discussion at all, probably asked for a pick and Ingram for Walker/Collins. Giving up 6 years of Walker for what could be 1 year of Ingram is risky.

Walker has up to 7 more years (likely 6) of team control. He's flawed enough that I dont think he will get a huge 2nd contract and will be a nicely priced starter quality, but ideally a lower minutes (like 25ish mpg) type center on his 2nd contract.

I really dont agree that we should trade him just to lose. He's a nice player to have for when you want to turn up the winning sliders. I am interested in Rocco from Australia as a better center prospect than Kessler (still think Malauch is extremely overrated), but I'm not 100% certain of that and overall it would be better to not use a higher pick on a limited center prospect if you already have that guy.
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He’s also a guy that should be extremely valuable during the regular season - even if you have to shift play styles and strategies in the playoffs. Teams should be built with both realities in mind.
 
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I just glanced at the roster on the official Jazz team website. Luka is still listed on the roster. THT, Kira, Yurt7, Dunn, Bazely and Lofton are gone. Eubanks and Svi are listed. Is something up like a coming sign and trade or does the contract he signed with the Turkish team have an NBA opt out? Could the Jazz still have an interest in him? Or is the web master just sloppy?
 
homeytennis said:
I just glanced at the roster on the official Jazz team website. Luka is still listed on the roster. THT, Kira, Yurt7, Dunn, Bazely and Lofton are gone. Eubanks and Svi are listed. Is something up like a coming sign and trade or does the contract he signed with the Turkish team have an NBA opt out? Could the Jazz still have an interest in him? Or is the web master just sloppy?
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Luka hasnt been renounced afaik. Dont know why they would delay that though.
 
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