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Conspiracy Theory Corner

Saint Cy of JFC said:
And yeah, that seems low for BI. But they need a center badly badly and they probably want to move Murphy in as a starter.

Utah is the only team who may be interested in BI who has a center that fits the Pelicans needs (good, starter quality, cheap)
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They are also just barely in the tax... so they need to move BI, get help at center, and do so while saving money. Kessler and Collins is the trade imo. I wouldn't add to it. At that price you can still justify playing hardball with BI and if he walks its not a big deal as you cleared some cap space at very least. It hurts the tank if everyone is healthy. If BI or Lauri miss chunks of games I still think its a stealth tank method. I wouldn't do this move imo. I would trade Walker (maybe with JC) for draft capital instead. I do understand this type of move though.
 
It would be a big plus for Lauri and the Jazz if he can translate that bulk into more big man ability. I think it opens up a lot better options than having him be a 3 (both offense and defense).
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They are also just barely in the tax... so they need to move BI, get help at center, and do so while saving money. Kessler and Collins is the trade imo. I wouldn't add to it. At that price you can still justify playing hardball with BI and if he walks its not a big deal as you cleared some cap space at very least. It hurts the tank if everyone is healthy. If BI or Lauri miss chunks of games I still think its a stealth tank method. I wouldn't do this move imo. I would trade Walker (maybe with JC) for draft capital instead. I do understand this type of move though.
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I think tossing in one of the bad firsts is fair. I think we win more games with Kessler+Collins on the roster, so I'm not worried about tanking....I'm just a little worried about giving Ingram a long term deal given his health record.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Sip thinks we are a guaranteed bottom 5 team if we stay pat....
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OK, guaranteed is pretty wild. I think we'd be favored, but there are definitely scenarios where I see us being outside of the bottom 5. There's WAS, BKN, and then like 4-5 teams for 3 more spots. I'd say we're one of those 4-5 teams.
 
KqWIN said:
I think tossing in one of the bad firsts is fair. I think we win more games with Kessler+Collins on the roster, so I'm not worried about tanking....I'm just a little worried about giving Ingram a long term deal given his health record.
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I'm still worried about tanking. BI gives us a higher ceiling but lower floor (because of health and consolidation) maybe. I just think instead of adding or substituting I'd be more inclined to subtract. Lauri is priority 1 but priority 2 is the tank.

I'm definitely out on the Cy plan of getting BI then adding more talent like Robert Williams or plugging more holes to push for the play-in. If they want to try and eff around and get BI it has the possibility of burning them. In this case burning them would mean we end up in the 9-14 space cuz BI plays 70+ games.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'm still worried about tanking. BI gives us a higher ceiling but lower floor (because of health and consolidation) maybe. I just think instead of adding or substituting I'd be more inclined to subtract. Lauri is priority 1 but priority 2 is the tank.

I'm definitely out on the Cy plan of getting BI then adding more talent like Robert Williams or plugging more holes to push for the play-in. If they want to try and eff around and get BI it has the possibility of burning them. In this case burning them would mean we end up in the 9-14 space cuz BI plays 70+ games.
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If we got both Williams and Ingram and they both played 70 games the Jazz would be a top 6 seed .
 
Yesterday I was driving around listening to some guy bloviate about the best remaining free agents still out there and five of the top 15-16 are our guys: Yurt7, THT, Potter, Luka and Kira Lewis. This tells me that this season will be a tankathon of tankathons. Hardy needs to bring in JLIII as an assistant coach.
 
Sexton/Kessler/Collins for Ingram, sweetener, and salary filler.

Drive a hard bargain on an extension. He can walk if he wants. This is still a tank, but this move either has upside as a quick turnaround if it ~works out or it gets the Jazz off a bunch of salary.

Lauri and Ingram go for 30+ a game and play not very many games together.
 
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Saint Cy of JFC said:
Actually it doesnt.

You can trade for BI, and as long as you can pull it off with Walker/Sensabaugh/Collins, you dont give up any future assets. You can then see if it works/doesnt, or to what degree it works, then pivot in 2026 to tank (trade Lauri on a full contract that is a higher value) and tank in 2026.
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I should have been more specific.
It ****s the 2025 tank

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We have done a pretty good job already of making a team that can tank now.
Just get it done now and get the high draft pick next year and start building and going after the Ingram's of the NBA then.

I don't want to ruin the tank we have been constructing so we can lose in the first round of the playoffs and then start building the tank all over again when Lauri is just another year older.

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Saint Cy of JFC said:
Damn, I was told O/U's are only based on what the roster currently is and there is no possible way people could factor in possible future moves. You must be 1 in a billion.
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Actually sip told you that when there is a trade that is likely to happen then Vegas puts everything on hold. Lol

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Saint Cy of JFC said:
Still crazy to me that a lot of people here arent considering the fact Lauri can get better and make (effective) tanking practically impossible....
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Sure he can. And he can get worse
And he can get better and have a supporting cast make his improvement not matter.

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SoberasHotRod said:
I keep discussing this under the caveat that Ingram is available for Collins and a first. That's probably way off and would require Kessler or more picks as well. If it is Collins and a first, I doubt we can find that good of a deal for a player as good as Ingram in the future.
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Agreed
But the good thing is that we might have to spend more on a different Ingram level talent and that one might be on a longer term deal. And yes it might cost more. I was never planning on using all these draft picks to draft dudes though anyways so I'm ok spending more in a trade after we have our 2025 stud. That's step one
Then we have all kinds of assets to use to get the Ingram types going forward in step 2

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Saint Cy of JFC said:
Just reading up on the Pelicans, it seems like they have this hope they can get Allen for Brandon Ingram, so it would be quite the letdown
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That would be great news

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Saint Cy of JFC said:
OK, new wrinkle.

The Jazz trade Collins/Kessler for Ingram. This gives the Pelicans everything they want to round out their depth. They get two different playstyle options at the 5 to help Zion.

Then the Jazz turnaround and trade Clarkson for Robert Williams.


The Blazers drafted Clingan and have Ayton on the roster. They have a massive longjam at the 5. Robert Williams is ultra talented.

View attachment 16931

Just look at this BPM stats for his career. Elite stuff. He just can't stay healthy.

Can you get Robert Williams for Clarkson and a handful of 2nds/Brice Sensabaugh?

Yeah, it's a huge gamble, but you build a team without giving up a single future asset. A healthy Robert Williams laps Kessler IMO.
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You’re describing the upside as the downside: let him spend a year getting healthy.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'm still worried about tanking. BI gives us a higher ceiling but lower floor (because of health and consolidation) maybe. I just think instead of adding or substituting I'd be more inclined to subtract. Lauri is priority 1 but priority 2 is the tank.

I'm definitely out on the Cy plan of getting BI then adding more talent like Robert Williams or plugging more holes to push for the play-in. If they want to try and eff around and get BI it has the possibility of burning them. In this case burning them would mean we end up in the 9-14 space cuz BI plays 70+ games.
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The tanking difference could go either way. I don't feel strongly enough that Ingram is better or worse for tanking for that to be the deciding factor. TBH, I think that Walker alone could provide more 82 game value than Ingram just because of the type of player he is, his health, and how he can elevate your defense.

IMO, it's about how comfortable you feel about giving Ingram a ton of money. I'd agree with you that I do not like adding a bunch of role players for a playoff chase. That goes back to previous seasons where we win a bunch of games with role players who also have no future at the team.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Sip thinks we are a guaranteed bottom 5 team if we stay pat....
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I saw some national ranking (like espn or something) a while ago that had us 5th worst in the NBA. 28.5 games doesn't seem like a lot to me either.

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