Deal with Iran = good. Better relations with Cuba = good. Why do Republicans hate the world?

[Gameface]

not going into this deal. but the iran deal also has democratic opposition.
even democrats voting for it thinks it is a bad deal.

but whatever floats your boat bro!

a minority believes in this bad deal

I guess I see this like I do marijuana prohibition. Many feel like marijuana is bad so obviously we should prohibit it, yet despite the law it is still very pervasive, so the prohibition is pretty meaningless. Our decades long sanctions on Iran might have brought them to the table...for this "bad" deal... but it hasn't really stopped them from doing what they want. They likely get a nuke under the old deal. If they get one now is that evidence that this deal was bad? I don't really think so.

But I see this deal as giving them enough rope to hang themselves by. If they violate the deal and develop nukes anyway I think the world would condone military strikes against them.

And I'll just say again, I think sanctions are dishonorable. They are essentially an act of war and they are no more humane than dropping bombs. I see it like having a sick cat and instead of putting it to sleep you shut it in the closet for a couple weeks and pretend like it's not there. Sanctions are for ******.

 

[Gameface]

But the linked article in the OP is Chris Christie criticizing the opening of relations with Cuba. That's what I find completely surprising. To me that's all positive. Cuba should be a prime destination for U.S. tourists. They should have a robust economy and awesome hotels, resorts, attractions fueled by visitors from the U.S.. I hope I can travel there some day. Glad the 50+ years of punishment are over for them. Obviously it never accomplished its goal.

 

[Stoked]

But the linked article in the OP is Chris Christie criticizing the opening of relations with Cuba. That's what I find completely surprising. To me that's all positive. Cuba should be a prime destination for U.S. tourists. They should have a robust economy and awesome hotels, resorts, attractions fueled by visitors from the U.S.. I hope I can travel there some day. Glad the 50+ years of punishment are over for them. Obviously it never accomplished its goal.

At one point it was. Havana was a very popular place in the 50s. From a national security stand point Cuba is very strategically important. Having a very friendly gov in Cuba secures the Gulf of Mexico. I'd love to see a president just lift Cuba out of their current conditions and bring them into the modern age and make friends with them.

It immensely benefits them and it benefits us. The Castro's are old, very old and there is no time like the present for positive action.

 

[Gameface]

At one point it was. Havana was a very popular place in the 50s. From a national security stand point Cuba is very strategically important. Having a very friendly gov in Cuba secures the Gulf of Mexico. I'd love to see a president just lift Cuba out of their current conditions and bring them into the modern age and make friends with them.

It's happening right now. But several of the Republican presidential candidates seem to be saying they'd shut that down if they got elected. I just don't get what they think anyone will gain from that.

 

[babe]

But the linked article in the OP is Chris Christie criticizing the opening of relations with Cuba. That's what I find completely surprising. To me that's all positive. Cuba should be a prime destination for U.S. tourists. They should have a robust economy and awesome hotels, resorts, attractions fueled by visitors from the U.S.. I hope I can travel there some day. Glad the 50+ years of punishment are over for them. Obviously it never accomplished its goal.

State-run tourist traps. Great idea. Maybe we could just give them a billion dollars to build those luxury hotels and restaurants. . . . command economics has all the beauty of "trickle down" tax breaks for the rich.

 

[Stoked]

It's happening right now. But several of the Republican presidential candidates seem to be saying they'd shut that down if they got elected. I just don't get what they think anyone will gain from that.

It amazes me how foolish and blind the GOP is. It is like they intentionally take bad positions. I see no benefit, none, from closing off Cuba from the world. I see multiple benefits from bringing Cuba up in the world and treating them like equals and friends.

Now that sanctions are ending, embassies and travel are opening lets have America be the ones that invest millions thru commerce and tourism, improve healthcare, education, technology...

It is a no brainer to me.

 

[Gameface]

State-run tourist traps. Great idea. Maybe we could just give them a billion dollars to build those luxury hotels and restaurants. . . . command economics has all the beauty of "trickle down" tax breaks for the rich.

I don't think that system will stand up to openness. Just like China has abandoned communism in the pursuit of prosperity, I think Cuba will come around pretty fast now that we are engaged with them.

 

[Stoked]

State-run tourist traps. Great idea. Maybe we could just give them a billion dollars to build those luxury hotels and restaurants. . . . command economics has all the beauty of "trickle down" tax breaks for the rich.

So what is your solution?

 

[♪alt13]

I guess I see this like I do marijuana prohibition. Many feel like marijuana is bad so obviously we should prohibit it, yet despite the law it is still very pervasive, so the prohibition is pretty meaningless. Our decades long sanctions on Iran might have brought them to the table...for this "bad" deal... but it hasn't really stopped them from doing what they want. They likely get a nuke under the old deal. If they get one now is that evidence that this deal was bad? I don't really think so.

But I see this deal as giving them enough rope to hang themselves by. If they violate the deal and develop nukes anyway I think the world would condone military strikes against them.

And I'll just say again, I think sanctions are dishonorable. They are essentially an act of war and they are no more humane than dropping bombs. I see it like having a sick cat and instead of putting it to sleep you shut it in the closet for a couple weeks and pretend like it's not there. Sanctions are for ******.

What? That's like equating theft with murder. Imprisonment with execution. Sanctions are an aggressive act yes but they are not on the same scale as bombings. Hunger and economic hardship are not equatable to blowing people into a tangled mess of bloody pieces. It's just not.

Imv it is also silly to compare nuclear non-proliferation to marijuana prohibition.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I'm not so sure that they would use a nuke on Israel but it is a power symbol for them.

radical Muslims are unpredictable and don't fear that. you saw the damage 15 did with just 4 planes on 911.
so you wanna give the same kinda people a nuke. only 1 rogue radical in the iran government could use it. spraypant his mug chrome take the Nuke yell Valhalla while driving it into the western wall.

extreme radical muslims are far more dangerous than any north korean.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Obama could not even get 4 hostages released.
how incompetent is barry.

 

[babe]

So what is your solution?

Game has a point. But China has a long track with economic interactions with Hong Kong and Taiwan. Taiwan businessmen were going to the mainland to start businesses in the eighties. The Castros are more like Mao. It might take some time, but capitalism will go into Cuba with every person who goes there. Some entrepreneur on the streets will have something of interest to sell to them.

 

[♪alt13]

The military’s purpose isn’t to break things and kill people, but it should be

...at present the military’s purpose encompasses a lot more than just killing people and breaking things. It’s building schools in Afghanistan and Africa. It’s flexing muscle around the Spratly Islands. It’s managing a host of domestic construction and environmental projects. It’s studying the effects of sound on marine mammals. It’s advancing renewable energy technologies. According to Cavanaugh, “the common denominator is serving and protecting America, Americans and American interests.” True enough.

But what Cavanaugh and many others ignore is that many of these initiatives could just as easily fall under the purview of the Department of State, Interior, Energy, or USAID...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/09/24/the-militarys-purpose-isnt-to-break-things-and-kill-people-but-it-should-be/

 

[Stoked]

Game has a point. But China has a long track with economic interactions with Hong Kong and Taiwan. Taiwan businessmen were going to the mainland to start businesses in the eighties. The Castros are more like Mao. It might take some time, but capitalism will go into Cuba with every person who goes there. Some entrepreneur on the streets will have something of interest to sell to them.

Then I must have misunderstood you. I got this from GF post but thought you were arguing against it.

My bad.

 

[Jamezz]

I don't understand opposition to Cuba but Iran. Jesus dude, you want nuclear weapon capabilities in the hands of radicals in the most unstable region on earth? Really!!

Ooh so scary, Iran might get nuclear weapons and blow the whole planet up man. What a load of fear mongering garbage.

 

[Gameface]

I don't understand opposition to Cuba but Iran. Jesus dude, you want nuclear weapon capabilities in the hands of radicals in the most unstable region on earth? Really!!

What were we doing before that was better at preventing that? What was the alternative to this deal?

In answer to your question, no I don't want them to have a nuke, but I don't want to starve their women and children to maybe sort of hopefully prevent that from happening.

 

[Jamezz]

Netanyahu is far way scarier to me than what Saddam Hussein or Gaddafi were. I vow for Assad and Ahmadinejad to resist the Zionist banks, the axis of evil is nothing less than the group of countries that have resisted global Zionism.

 

[Jamezz]

Game asks me why I think I know so much. Here's the story.

Once I was in a little Christian Church that had the Israeli Minister of Education come speak at meeting. Afterwards, the minister buttonholed me to explain to me why Iran was the worst kind of bad, how they were going to nuke Israel if they got the bomb. I listened, and wondered why he took the trouble. What did he know about me? Did he come all the way to the United States just to deliver this message to me personally. I know, man, this is like conspiracy thinking and stuff, but has Mossad been tracking me for the past forty years? Did he know I trained an Iranian when that Iranian dude first came to the States, and stuff, you know, the Iranian who got all American and started a company and became a billionaire? Or does that Mossad dossier mention about forty other Iranian friends of mine, or what. Or is it because I'm that Jew nobody knows who goes to a Christian Church with maybe ten members who can pay their bills on time.

Anyway, I got the invite to go to Israel and take a two week tour, like a VIP or something. I tell ya, those Israeli army dudes with the guns on every corner, and stuff like that.

If I was Obama, and Netanyahu came to town, I'd roll out a red carpet and serve up some good wine. Netanyahu is buds with someone I used to work for, another billionaire. Amazing what you can learn being a fly on the wall with people like that. . . . If Obama was smart, he'd shut up the community organizer jive and listen a little. That's how I know squat.

I listen to anti-semitics with their smart rewrites of history, you know, the stuff about Khazaria and Edomites and Zionists too, you know, the commie bankers who make their bills off financing wars and stuff, and how the commie Russians made a deal with the Commie Zionists to never make peace with the Palestinians just so Russian agents can make a bad press for the American interests raining bombs all over the world to protect Israel, and stuff. . . .

Then I see Kerry try to negotiate with some Russian counterpart to get Russia to stand down and let ISIS go on more rampage, and then he comes out on British TV saying Assad and the Russians are doing us some good being there with their planes and bombs. When Putin calls Assad, they speak English with one another because Assad doesn't know Russian and Putin doesn't speak Syrian.

Crazy world out there. I better just shut up and listen up.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, but history is always up for grabs. How is questioning what we've been taught in school about history is antisemitic? Why is anti-semitism always brought up in these discussions?
It seems like anything that puts Israel in a bad spot is taboo, it cannot be argued, how dare you question Israel's intentions etc...

My question is, do you think Obama is who pulls the strings in our government? If not, who do you think does?

 

[mellow]

Ooh so scary, Iran might get nuclear weapons and blow the whole planet up man. What a load of fear mongering garbage.

This comment does not make sense to me. Are you unaware of the damage a nuclear weapon would cause? Or are you trying to argue they won't use it once they have it?

 

[Jamezz]

This comment does not make sense to me. Are you unaware of the damage a nuclear weapon would cause? Or are you trying to argue they won't use it once they have it?

A nuclear weapon owned by Iran could cause some serious damage, the same way a nuclear weapon owned by the US or Israel could. Will they use it once they have it? Of course they won't. It'd be like running into the Sheriff's office and shooting down one of the employees, tell me how would that end.