Devin getting a little bit of love

[Jazz4ever]

He's never made a team better, and 28 is old for a PG that relies on his quickness above everything else. He has real value for a team that might have a window to use what's left of that quickness, but the Jazz are probably not that team.

Not true at all. Dallas won 67 games the last full year he played with them at the tender age of 23. The following year he played only half a season with Jason Kidd playing the other and they only won 51, followed by only 50 the next year with Kidd running the show full time. Harris did fine in NJ the first couple years considering the talent around him. 34 wins with your only other notable player being a washed up Vince Carter isn't easy. Of course he was part of the historically bad 09/10 team, I can't make excuses there, but the total evidence is more positive than negative.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Not true at all. Dallas won 67 games the last full year he played with them at the tender age of 23. The following year he played only half a season with Jason Kidd playing the other and they only won 51, followed by only 50 the next year with Kidd running the show full time. Harris did fine in NJ the first couple years considering the talent around him. 34 wins with your only other notable player being a washed up Vince Carter isn't easy. Of course he was part of the historically bad 09/10 team, I can't make excuses there, but the total evidence is more positive than negative.

Any ups on teams he's played for can be accounted for by natural ebb and flow of a team. He hasn't made a significant impact on the teams he's played for, for better or for worse. Besides, that 67 win team had a historical playoff collapse, as his man became the face of the playoffs.

He's not the worst player in the world, but he's not that great, and the sucker's bet is that he's supposed to do anything but plateau for a few years at best. His timeline and the Jazz's timeline just does not make any sense together. Get something for him, or you either end up losing him for nothing (but savings), or you extend him and hope his performance doesn't fall off a cliff in those years.

However, since the Jazz didn't do anything to grab a PG to develop of any kind (unless you're high on this Burks as a PG idea), there are worse players to have than Harris at the moment. But the Jazz had better figure something else out eventually. And preferably for a PG that can hurt you from deep with reliability.

 

[Zerol]

I still say that none of Teague, Kabongo, or Marshall are likely to better than Harris. Teague, maybe. That's the dilemma .. no elite (at least yet) PG's coming into a draft for a few years and, by then, there will be plenty of teams searching one out. It's either Harris, FA, or a less 'pure' PG.

Didn't the experts say Knight basically had to declare for the draft because Teasure is more talented and would rip the starting point guard spot from him? If that is the case, Teague would be more than capable to take over as the point guard of the future.

 

[blacksalad]

one of the fallouts of rebuilding is the urge to... keep rebuilding.... and hoping for the best until you land a superstar. Likelihood of that actually happening with our future draft picks is basically nothing. I agree w/ the previous posts that harris w/ his now veteran status would help this team far more than hinder it. Remember jazzfans, we don't NEED a true PG just because we are used to it. Harris can push the ball and hit 3's, burks and hayward have passing ability, and kanter/favors can hopefully keep opposing defense honest. I think the jazz are off to a great rebuild.

just b/c he doesn't record 10 assists/night doesn't make him a bad fit. Its a different team. I know its hard to see the jazz w/o a true pg, but seriously, get over stockton-syndrome. I'll take a bunch of fast young scorers + veteran pg any day over what dwill and booze had to offer.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Didn't the experts say Knight basically had to declare for the draft because Teasure is more talented and would rip the starting point guard spot from him? If that is the case, Teague would be more than capable to take over as the point guard of the future.

It seems like anyone who went to Kentucky would know before hand that Callipari is constantly bringing in new and hyped up talent. I'm sure Knight had one and done on his mind, and that is probably why he went to Kentucky.

 

[orangello]

NOT second-guessing .. just curious .. What makes Teague not a good fit? What makes Kabongo better for the Jazz, and better than Marshall?

Let me first say that I actually really like Teague. I think that he will have a great career in the NBA. The reason that I prefer Kabongo or Marshall more than Teague is because they do not rely on athleticism to get what they want. Teague does. That is the direction that the league is heading is an athletic PG. That is a good thing. I like that in the NBA, but keep two things in mind, First, as has been brought up several time before not since the days of Magic has a team with an elite PG won a championship, and second, with the current roster the Jazz need a spot scorer and near full time facilitator.

That is all just my opinion and I know that others will not agree but that is how I see the Jazz being the most successful.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Let me first say that I actually really like Teague. I think that he will have a great career in the NBA. The reason that I prefer Kabongo or Marshall more than Teague is because they do not rely on athleticism to get what they want. Teague does. That is the direction that the league is heading is an athletic PG. That is a good thing. I like that in the NBA, but keep two things in mind, First, as has been brought up several time before not since the days of Magic has a team with an elite PG won a championship, and second, with the current roster the Jazz need a spot scorer and near full time facilitator.

That is all just my opinion and I know that others will not agree but that is how I see the Jazz being the most successful.

Isaiah Thomas begs to differ.

 

[orangello]

Isaiah Thomas begs to differ.

And that championship was won in what year?

 

[Scorpjazz]

one of the fallouts of rebuilding is the urge to... keep rebuilding.... and hoping for the best until you land a superstar. Likelihood of that actually happening with our future draft picks is basically nothing. I agree w/ the previous posts that harris w/ his now veteran status would help this team far more than hinder it. Remember jazzfans, we don't NEED a true PG just because we are used to it. Harris can push the ball and hit 3's, burks and hayward have passing ability, and kanter/favors can hopefully keep opposing defense honest. I think the jazz are off to a great rebuild.

just b/c he doesn't record 10 assists/night doesn't make him a bad fit. Its a different team. I know its hard to see the jazz w/o a true pg, but seriously, get over stockton-syndrome. I'll take a bunch of fast young scorers + veteran pg any day over what dwill and booze had to offer.

GREAT post, well said. I dont understand how so many here are so down on him. NO, he isnt Stockton. NO, he isnt DWIll. With what we seem to be building, we dont need him to be.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Didn't the experts say Knight basically had to declare for the draft because Teasure is more talented and would rip the starting point guard spot from him? If that is the case, Teague would be more than capable to take over as the point guard of the future.

Where to start ..
1) No way Teague would come in and take anything from Knight. The question was more of which is better, Teague and Knight (at SG) or Knight and Lamb (with Teague as 6th man)? The consensus of the coaching staff was that Teague was too good to have on the bench, but is a pure point .. whereas Knight can easily play SG. Therefore, in the interest of 'team' Knight could be playing out of position, thus the decision to declare being that much easier.
2) Experts speak out of their *****, most of the time.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Let me first say that I actually really like Teague. I think that he will have a great career in the NBA. The reason that I prefer Kabongo or Marshall more than Teague is because they do not rely on athleticism to get what they want. Teague does. That is the direction that the league is heading is an athletic PG. That is a good thing. I like that in the NBA, but keep two things in mind, First, as has been brought up several time before not since the days of Magic has a team with an elite PG won a championship, and second, with the current roster the Jazz need a spot scorer and near full time facilitator.

That is all just my opinion and I know that others will not agree but that is how I see the Jazz being the most successful.

Cool, thanks for clarifying. Based on what you outlined above, you'd likely covet Marshall most (at least at this point) out of the crop of '12 PG's. He's the least athletic, but is the most floor general'esque. I'd have a hard time deciding. As much as this board disagrees, I really like having an elite passing PG that can easily take his man off the dribble. Teague is less of a leader than Marshall (probably will always be a step behind) but I love that he is scouted to be FASTER than John Wall with his first step and lateral quickness .. that can really disrupt a defense. FORCE the other team to anticipate help defense and let the assists rack up. Maybe I'm a dreamer .. lol.

 

[Marty McFly]

Teams with worse PG's have won championships.

 

[MattMan]

Harris is a great PG to have for the next 3 years as a starter. Even at 31, I see him being able to be better than half of the league's PGs.

After that, lessen the minutes and place a future PG to take his duties.

We've been so used to the PG position being a greatest strength. With Favors, Kanter, Burks, Hayward being the future, I'd be ok with the PG position being the weakest on the team........especially considering the PG position could be manned by a veteran Harris.

You get amazing talent around a mediocre PG and.....BAM!....you get Rondo.

Give Harris at least a full season as a Jazzman with our talent.

 

[Cope]

I love how some are saying that an 18 year old is 'better' than Harris and that Harris is washed up.

28 Years old - in his prime

Will he be the 21/7 guy he was in New Jersey - I hope not because that is not what this team needs.

Now if he can be a 14/8 guy, provide veteran leadership, play good 'team' defense, and continue to break down defenses when needed that is exactally what the Jazz need. He is underrated as a shooter (Not great but is Kidd), can get to the basket and create, and gets to the foul line.

I laugh because every fan wants a top 3 PG, top 5 SG, top 3 SF, Top 5 PF/C combo.

We don't need 12 twenty year olds on our team. If that was the case just watch college as the Jazz will turn into the Clipper quickly.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I love how some are saying that an 18 year old is 'better' than Harris and that Harris is washed up.

28 Years old - in his prime

Will he be the 21/7 guy he was in New Jersey - I hope not because that is not what this team needs.

Now if he can be a 14/8 guy, provide veteran leadership, play good 'team' defense, and continue to break down defenses when needed that is exactally what the Jazz need. He is underrated as a shooter (Not great but is Kidd), can get to the basket and create, and gets to the foul line.

I laugh because every fan wants a top 3 PG, top 5 SG, top 3 SF, Top 5 PF/C combo.

We don't need 12 twenty year olds on our team. If that was the case just watch college as the Jazz will turn into the Clipper quickly.

1. I don't think anyone said the 18 year old players were better, just could become better and would be good players to pick up if we can because we do need at least another backup PG.

2. Age doesn't always dictate prime. Just because 28 is the prime years for most, doesn't mean Harris hasn't peaked yet.

3. Underrated shooter? Career 30% from 3, and has shot pretty bad from the field since being traded from Dallas. I guess if you have Numberica rating him he might be under rated.

4. If a potential top 10 PG is in next years draft why wouldn't we take him? We will most likely have at least one pick next year, so guess what? A 19-22 year old will most likely be added to the team, if not 2 of them. If we end up getting 2 mid-late lottery picks it would be dumb not to land one of the PG's.

 

[just because]

one of the fallouts of rebuilding is the urge to... keep rebuilding.... and hoping for the best until you land a superstar. Likelihood of that actually happening with our future draft picks is basically nothing. I agree w/ the previous posts that harris w/ his now veteran status would help this team far more than hinder it. Remember jazzfans, we don't NEED a true PG just because we are used to it. Harris can push the ball and hit 3's, burks and hayward have passing ability, and kanter/favors can hopefully keep opposing defense honest. I think the jazz are off to a great rebuild.

just b/c he doesn't record 10 assists/night doesn't make him a bad fit. Its a different team. I know its hard to see the jazz w/o a true pg, but seriously, get over stockton-syndrome. I'll take a bunch of fast young scorers + veteran pg any day over what dwill and booze had to offer.

Couldn't agree more. Jazz have assembled an amazing amount of talant. Somebody needs to be the leader with all these young guys. Harris seems to be good at that. I also hope they hang on to Watson. He's been the best back up I've seen for the Jazz in a long time.

 

[Cope]

1. I don't think anyone said the 18 year old players were better, just could become better and would be good players to pick up if we can because we do need at least another backup PG.

I agree that is the the 8 year solution, probably not but just my opinion, we need a vet leader and Harris can be that. There is a problem when you put together a team and a few players don't stand out and become stars. I would rather have 2 main players and a few 'role' players like Harris than 5 players that all think they should be all stars

2. Age doesn't always dictate prime. Just because 28 is the prime years for most, doesn't mean Harris hasn't peaked yet.
In the NBA it is proven that NBA players peak around that age. Is it 'always' going to happen, no, but more times than not it means they understand the NBA game, they are mature, they want to WIN vs. get paid

3. Underrated shooter? Career 30% from 3, and has shot pretty bad from the field since being traded from Dallas. I guess if you have Numberica rating him he might be under rated.
If you are considering any stats, including his best year, on those NJ teams that is the problem. If that is the case give me a team of Jefferson, Kevin Loves, Kamans, ect. Numbers are numbers but on a bad team someone has to score. I feel his 3 Point shooting numbers while in New Jersey were a direct reflection of never having an inside presence and the ball ending up in his hand (Which isn't horrible) but having to force shots.

In Dallas his first 4 years, with minutes increasing every year, he shot about 47% from the field and his last year shot 35.7% from 3's . I believe there is no reason he can't get back to that percentage (Up from the 32.2% he shot last year) with knowing the offense and increase post presence. Let me run by you 'shooters' he shot better than from 3 point land - Durant (35.0%), James (33.0%), Wade (30.6%), Kobe (32.3%), Manu (34.9%).

What about other PG's since we are taking about a PG here?
Rose (33.3%), Westbrook (33.0%), Parker (35.7%), Kidd (34.0%)

4. If a potential top 10 PG is in next years draft why wouldn't we take him? We will most likely have at least one pick next year, so guess what? A 19-22 year old will most likely be added to the team, if not 2 of them. If we end up getting 2 mid-late lottery picks it would be dumb not to land one of the PG's.

First of all I cannot see us keeping both picks. That would be what 8 players that have 2 or less years experience. If that were to happen I can see us trading one of the kids that we have drafted already. PG could be an option but if we truely do have 2 lottery picks taking a PG when we have Harris vs. BPA is just not the right direction. Now if the BPA available is a PG I am all for it but would rather keep what Veteran leadership we actually have vs. being so young.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

First of all I cannot see us keeping both picks. That would be what 8 players that have 2 or less years experience. If that were to happen I can see us trading one of the kids that we have drafted already. PG could be an option but if we truely do have 2 lottery picks taking a PG when we have Harris vs. BPA is just not the right direction. Now if the BPA available is a PG I am all for it but would rather keep what Veteran leadership we actually have vs. being so young.

Just because we draft a PG doesn't mean we have to dump Harris right away. And what has Devin Harris lead any team to? Just because a player is a veteran, doesn't mean they provide veteran leadership by default.

 

[orangello]

Cool, thanks for clarifying. Based on what you outlined above, you'd likely covet Marshall most (at least at this point) out of the crop of '12 PG's. He's the least athletic, but is the most floor general'esque. I'd have a hard time deciding. As much as this board disagrees, I really like having an elite passing PG that can easily take his man off the dribble. Teague is less of a leader than Marshall (probably will always be a step behind) but I love that he is scouted to be FASTER than John Wall with his first step and lateral quickness .. that can really disrupt a defense. FORCE the other team to anticipate help defense and let the assists rack up. Maybe I'm a dreamer .. lol.

I do like Marshall but his shot absolutely scares me!!! I know that he is very young and that he could improve his shot but like i said, it scares me. Kabongo really intrigues me but I have not seen enough of him to have a good idea of what he can do as far as shooting goes. Out of the two, I feel like Kabongo is quicker off the dribble but his decision making seems a little suspect. Marshall seems to be a better decision maker but he is not going to blow by anyone off the dribble.

 

[HeavenHarris]

Captain Harris is great, on and off the court, the Jazz are lucky to have him.