Devin Harris on Al Jefferson: Jazz fans will be surprised if they see him

[sepanol]

Not to mention Kanter might suck. So might Favors. Sap's ceiling might be topped out. Al might prove his individual talents are more detrimental to team play than they're worth.

The crazy thing is assuming anyone is a bedrock, or the future, and planning that way. You put the best guys on the floor every night. If Kanter or Favors are so good, they'll force their way onto the floor. You don't assume NOW that they're going to be studs and put proven players out to pasture just to get that assumption going.

Anyway you gotta make choices, after 3-4 years from now, we cant keep all the guys we have right now. We dont have a guarantee Kanter or Favors will be very good players, but it is a high possiblity that they will be. And it is not a bad idea to start guys who have potential right now if we are a rebuilding team. If you think like that, then it was a bad idea that Oklahoma gave all the responsibility to Durant and Westbrook as soon as they get drafted

 

[sepanol]

Sepanol, you always say that we can't keep Jefferson and all these other young players. This may be true, but we will be able to for the next two years quite easily.

Jefferson has 2 years left on his contract
Millsap has 2 years left (or is it 3?)
Favors has 3
Kanter will have 4 (assuming rookie contract length is the same in new CBA)

We will be able to keep this 4 man rotation for 2 years. After those 2 years are up, we will have to reevaluate the direction of our big men. Are Favors and Kanter performing well enough to be trusted wtih full time starter minutes? Are Millsap or Jefferson resign-able? And so on. A lot can happen from now to then end of those 2 years.

Yeah but i think, we should get some nice asset by shipping Big Al and Harris now, because after 2 years, if we wont agree with them, especially Big Al, he will go away without giving us anything in return. I mean instead of having redundancy in big man rotation, we can get a good SF or PG or another top draft pick this year.
You can argue, we can ship Millsap or Memo instead, but millsap is so productive and he can be a bench guy, and he is paid half of Big Al. Memo is already on last year contract, so after this year, he can either leave or stay with a cheaper deal.

Big Al here is the only guy we can use as a good trade asset and we have this flexibility to trade because of the guys we already have. So what im saying again and again, i dont say he is a bad player, he is just clearly not our franchise player. I dont say lets just give him away but if we are gonna get something good in return why not?

It is my opinion, and noone needs to agree with me, but im just asking, why is he so important for us right now? I dont think he is gonna convert into a completely different player in 1-2 years. We already know him pretty much, we have seen his games whole year, does anyone think, he is gonna make a big jump really? I dont think so
If i was the manager, i would move Big Al and Harris right away, get a good PG or SF, and give the leadership to Hayward. Thats what we should consider doing. Because this team isnt retooling, its rebuilding

 

[sepanol]

I like Al.

Seriously though. Who thought Sepanol was a guy without an agenda? Dude wants to sell the USA that Kanter is greater than any NBA player. No big deal. At least we might be able to keep Okur.

****, hire the guy already. He'll ship out Jefferson for a 2nd, Sap for maybe a conditional 2nd and play Kanter 48 MPG. Championship.

At least Kanter is my countryman, and who is Valanciunas for you? or is it another guy you are trying to find to overshadow Kanters talent?

Btw he is drafted 3rd,so i guess the KOC wasnt that intelligent like you to understand Kanter sucks and drafted another big man instead of brandon knight. It is ridiculous isnt it?

 

[sepanol]

And it is sad that only a handful of people are high on our 3rd draft pick. I would say he didnt play 2 years , maybe thats why, but i think most of us have seen him play in Euro cup, and even though being a 19 yrs old guy without game practise of 2 years, he played pretty well. He was the second best scorer in a team where no one gave him the ball and created most of his points by himself, without pick n rolls and good assists.

Maybe i dont understand anything from basketball, i should stop watching it and return back to soccer i guess.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I like you sepanol. I don't agree with you, but I love your passion and I respect that you have are willing to stand up for your strong opinions - and your reading comprehension comments are spot on. I think fighting for the meaning of your words is pretty cool coming from a guy who clearly speaks English as a second language.

In my opinion, sepanol's ideas are best case scenario. If we had complete confidence that Kanter could meet or exceed Big Al's contribution to the team within a year of learning, and if we were offered a deal like Al for Granger we should take it. The flaw in that logic, for me, is that I expect Al to be much better than Kanter this season (if there is such a thing a 2011-12 season). I agree with those who say that Al has never been in a good situation for his entire career. The bottom line is, I want to see him play some ball in the new Jazz system before I'll be ready to give up on him, especially if I see proof that he really has worked on his conditioning over this long summer.

 

[Dr. Jones]

^^^ Good post, beginning to end.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

^^^ There's another good post. A really good one.

 

[Dr. Jones]

^^^ There's another good post. A really good one.

repped

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yeah but i think, we should get some nice asset by shipping Big Al and Harris now, because after 2 years, if we wont agree with them, especially Big Al, he will go away without giving us anything in return. I mean instead of having redundancy in big man rotation, we can get a good SF or PG or another top draft pick this year.
You can argue, we can ship Millsap or Memo instead, but millsap is so productive and he can be a bench guy, and he is paid half of Big Al. Memo is already on last year contract, so after this year, he can either leave or stay with a cheaper deal.

Big Al here is the only guy we can use as a good trade asset and we have this flexibility to trade because of the guys we already have. So what im saying again and again, i dont say he is a bad player, he is just clearly not our franchise player. I dont say lets just give him away but if we are gonna get something good in return why not?

It is my opinion, and noone needs to agree with me, but im just asking, why is he so important for us right now? I dont think he is gonna convert into a completely different player in 1-2 years. We already know him pretty much, we have seen his games whole year, does anyone think, he is gonna make a big jump really? I dont think so
If i was the manager, i would move Big Al and Harris right away, get a good PG or SF, and give the leadership to Hayward. Thats what we should consider doing. Because this team isnt retooling, its rebuilding

I somewhat agree with you. I think Kanter and Favors are better off sitting on the bench for the next 2 years though and learning behind Al. Also, Harris is probably better than any PG we could get right now through any kind of trade. Also, trading Big Al now for someone like Granger would also lead to problems retaining players, because Granger is another player who is going to command a fairly high salary. I think the Jazz are in a great position to just sit on their picks and players, have another great draft, and let their current young players develop.

I think the year after the next full year of basketball (whenever the hell that is) could be a really good year for us. It would be Favors and Hayward's 3rd year, Kanter and Burk's 2nd, we would potentially have 2 more lottery picks (including a possible stud SF, like Miller,Gilchrist, or Jones) and we would have Sap,Jefferson, and Harris in their primes. That team could make a legitimate playoff run like Memphis did this past year. I think the young guys are better off learning from that playoff experience than sucking, because that's what will most likely happen if we ship Jefferson and Harris away.

 

[Brown Notes]

And it is sad that only a handful of people are high on our 3rd draft pick. I would say he didnt play 2 years , maybe thats why, but i think most of us have seen him play in Euro cup, and even though being a 19 yrs old guy without game practise of 2 years, he played pretty well. He was the second best scorer in a team where no one gave him the ball and created most of his points by himself, without pick n rolls and good assists.

Maybe i dont understand anything from basketball, i should stop watching it and return back to soccer i guess.

You turn a lot of people off of the kid by incessantly pimping him as the GOAT. There isn't anybody on this board that hates him including me. Yet to you that is the only other option to starting and playing the kid 30+ minutes, and trading away players that produce.

Your POV is entirely dependent on the assumption that Kanter is going to be a great player, much better than Jefferson. You don't care that as a guy that hasn't played even a single college game and very limited BBall over the last several years Kanter would benefit quite a bit playing WITH somebody who possesses elite moves under the basket. You don't care that the team has a rookie coach who needs all the help he can get to create a winning culture. It doesn't matter to you that by sitting pat through this season (if there is one) Utah will have an even greater advantage for 2012 in terms of flexibility, young talent and movable assets vs. static salary.

No, nothing is as important as force-feeding Kanter all the minutes his young body can handle so your dreams can come true as soon as possible. And you wonder why everybody else isn't on that train.

 

[Zerol]

I did see improvement at the end of the year, and to hear that he is dedicating himself this offseason, how can you not be happy to know this.

If you are a true Jazz fan, then yes you will be happy to know this.

 

[sepanol]

I like you sepanol. I don't agree with you, but I love your passion and I respect that you have are willing to stand up for your strong opinions - and your reading comprehension comments are spot on. I think fighting for the meaning of your words is pretty cool coming from a guy who clearly speaks English as a second language.

In my opinion, sepanol's ideas are best case scenario. If we had complete confidence that Kanter could meet or exceed Big Al's contribution to the team within a year of learning, and if we were offered a deal like Al for Granger we should take it. The flaw in that logic, for me, is that I expect Al to be much better than Kanter this season (if there is such a thing a 2011-12 season). I agree with those who say that Al has never been in a good situation for his entire career. The bottom line is, I want to see him play some ball in the new Jazz system before I'll be ready to give up on him, especially if I see proof that he really has worked on his conditioning over this long summer.

I never say my points are totally true or not, there isnt one single right, but im just telling my opinion, if we find a good deal, we should trade, because we have flexibility for that. I mean, yeah Kanter may turn out to be not as good as i hope, but still its a good chance that he will, it is not even a big risk we are taking. I wouldnt be against Big Al so much if he get paid less, but i think it is too much, it is same thing as AK was getting paid 17 per year. So i am against any player who gets more than he is worth. Thats all i am saying

BTW an alternative scenario to my opinion can be, we can keep these guys, first year (since best case it will be 50 games) , Kanter will make a rather soft transition to nba and Favors'll get more experience as well, then we can ship Big Al if everything goes right before his last year so that the Boozer incident wont happen. But i really dont see Big Al staying in this team for more than 2-3 years unless Kanter sucks really bad (which i dont think it will happen)

 

[sepanol]

You turn a lot of people off of the kid by incessantly pimping him as the GOAT. There isn't anybody on this board that hates him including me. Yet to you that is the only other option to starting and playing the kid 30+ minutes, and trading away players that produce.

Your POV is entirely dependent on the assumption that Kanter is going to be a great player, much better than Jefferson. You don't care that as a guy that hasn't played even a single college game and very limited BBall over the last several years Kanter would benefit quite a bit playing WITH somebody who possesses elite moves under the basket. You don't care that the team has a rookie coach who needs all the help he can get to create a winning culture. It doesn't matter to you that by sitting pat through this season (if there is one) Utah will have an even greater advantage for 2012 in terms of flexibility, young talent and movable assets vs. static salary.

No, nothing is as important as force-feeding Kanter all the minutes his young body can handle so your dreams can come true as soon as possible. And you wonder why everybody else isn't on that train.

I never say Kanter should get 30+ mins first year in any of my posts. Even if we ship Big Al, millsap should be the one getting 30+ and plus there is memo. Kanter and Favors can come off the bench and start learning without Big Al too.

It is just my opinion that Kanter will be much better overall than Big Al. Because i can see Kanter has similar post games, plus better shooting touch. So offensively i dont think he will be worse than Big Al. And from what i have seen in the euro cup, he may not be the best defender in the league, but at least he defends with his brain. Just has couple of flaws like lateral quickness and else.

So for me, he will be like a Big Al who has better touch and defensively smarter and that makes a pretty good player. But like Boozer and like Jefferson, if you have a serious weakness in defense, it makes you half a player, because defense is an important part of the game. How many elite players are there in the league who plays only one side of the game and is very good, especially being a Big man? And tell me, how you rank Big Al among other PF (i see him as a PF rather than C) in the league? Would he make top 8?

 

[Deleted member 848]

I never say Kanter should get 30+ mins first year in any of my posts. Even if we ship Big Al, millsap should be the one getting 30+ and plus there is memo. Kanter and Favors can come off the bench and start learning without Big Al too.

It is just my opinion that Kanter will be much better overall than Big Al. Because i can see Kanter has similar post games, plus better shooting touch. So offensively i dont think he will be worse than Big Al. And from what i have seen in the euro cup, he may not be the best defender in the league, but at least he defends with his brain. Just has couple of flaws like lateral quickness and else.

So for me, he will be like a Big Al who has better touch and defensively smarter and that makes a pretty good player. But like Boozer and like Jefferson, if you have a serious weakness in defense, it makes you half a player, because defense is an important part of the game. How many elite players are there in the league who plays only one side of the game and is very good, especially being a Big man? And tell me, how you rank Big Al among other PF (i see him as a PF rather than C) in the league? Would he make top 8?

Tell me Sepanol: How many centers in the NBA are better "offensively" than Al Jefferson? And don't use the "I see him as a PF" argument, seeing as as of now he has predominately played as a five, and therefore a comparison of his stats and skills would be most accurate with other centres in the NBA. Hell, id even go as far as to say if you include PFs in the mix, he's still among the elite on the offensive side of the ball game. Using Big Al as a basement for Kanters offensive potential is just really funny to me.

 

[sepanol]

Tell me Sepanol: How many centers in the NBA are better "offensively" than Al Jefferson? And don't use the "I see him as a PF" argument, seeing as as of now he has predominately played as a five, and therefore a comparison of his stats and skills would be most accurate with other centres in the NBA. Hell, id even go as far as to say if you include PFs in the mix, he's still among the elite on the offensive side of the ball game. Using Big Al as a basement for Kanters offensive potential is just really funny to me.

Bynum, Jamison, Chris Bosh, Howard, Brand, Amare, Gasol , Nowitzki, Garnett, Duncan ,Lewis

These are the big man who is paid more than Big Al. Whom you can point out that Big Al is really better?

Lewis is paid crazily more than what he deserves everybody knows that, but who else? Maybe Jamison, we can discuss who is better or not. But clearly Big Al, isnt on the level of these elite players, i can even count more players who is paid less and better than him,

Randolph, Griffin, Lamarcus, B.Lopez, Kevin love, Horford, Cousins

So i reverse the question, well you say he is a center, ok lets take it like that, how many centers in the league is a worse defender than Big Al ? Count me 5

I am not trying to find his mistakes or try to see him worse than he is, but this is the fact. with blocking , you can save only one possession, but without iq you cant be a good defender at all. Only good thing Big Al do related to defense is blocking timing.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Bynum, Jamison, Chris Bosh, Howard, Brand, Amare, Gasol , Nowitzki, Garnett, Duncan ,Lewis

These are the big man who is paid more than Big Al. Whom you can point out that Big Al is really better?

Lewis is paid crazily more than what he deserves everybody knows that, but who else? Maybe Jamison, we can discuss who is better or not. But clearly Big Al, isnt on the level of these elite players, i can even count more players who is paid less and better than him,

Randolph, Griffin, Lamarcus, B.Lopez, Kevin love, Horford, Cousins

So i reverse the question, well you say he is a center, ok lets take it like that, how many centers in the league is a worse defender than Big Al ? Count me 5

I am not trying to find his mistakes or try to see him worse than he is, but this is the fact. with blocking , you can save only one possession, but without iq you cant be a good defender at all. Only good thing Big Al do related to defense is blocking timing.

Many of those players you listed are definitely not centers. I will start off with Antwan Jamison, wtf. Bosh, Brand, Amare, Nowitizki, Garnett, and Lewis (Rashard?) are also definitely not centers. Arguments could be made for Duncan and Gasol that that they are centers, and I would agree.

 

[sepanol]

Many of those players you listed are definitely not centers. I will start off with Antwan Jamison, wtf. Bosh, Brand, Amare, Nowitizki, Garnett, and Lewis (Rashard?) are also definitely not centers. Arguments could be made for Duncan and Gasol that that they are centers, and I would agree.

Honestly, Duncan and Gasol i believe are also PFs and Big al as well.
Anyway, there is only Howard as an elite center in this league and no other player can come close to his level right now. Lets say i count Big Al to be PF then obviously there are many players better than him right now, do you agree?. Lets say, he is a center, then tell me how many centers are there in the league with worse defense? I dont even say starting centers, just centers.

Btw, he plays center in Utah mainly because Millsap cant, Memo is injured, Fes sucks. Not because he is a real center.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Honestly, Duncan and Gasol i believe are also PFs and Big al as well.
Anyway, there is only Howard as an elite center in this league and no other player can come close to his level right now. Lets say i count Big Al to be PF then obviously there are many players better than him right now, do you agree?. Lets say, he is a center, then tell me how many centers are there in the league with worse defense? I dont even say starting centers, just centers.

Btw, he plays center in Utah mainly because Millsap cant, Memo is injured, Fes sucks. Not because he is a real center.

So you never told me Sepanol;

How many centers are more offensively skilled as of right now (Duncan is definitely on the decline) than Al Jefferson? I really dont care what you think his "Natural" position is, fact of the matter is that he played 82 games as a center last season, has predominately played center for most of his career, and should therefore have his offensive repetoire compared against people of that position.

You just swapped the question and started talking about his defense......typical. You said that Kanter would become at LEAST better than him, and now youre not addressing my question.

 

[billyshelby]

Sepanol: Just admit you don't have any idea how good Al is, or Sap, or Favors. You've never really seen them. Everyone gets the agenda. You love Kanter. You want him playing as many minutes next year as possible. You don't care if it makes the team worse. Kanter is the future. A superstar that will obviously be better than Al is now, or Milsap, or Favors.

Just admit this. Then you won't have to write a lot of posts that pretend at objectivity. And we won't have to read them.

 

[jope]

Bynum, Jamison, Chris Bosh, Howard, Brand, Amare, Gasol , Nowitzki, Garnett, Duncan ,Lewis

Out of this group, not even caring that most of the players you named are not centers, i would take al's offense over everyone but dirk, amare and gasol.

bynum's game is still developing (he can barely stay on the court),
jamison is old and awkward
bosh is softer than my **** after raisin bran
howard is a brute, and has the ability to dominate, but doesnt have the offensive consistency yet,(if he ever develops a midrange shot, lookout)
brand has been a let down for some time,
amare is a good offensive player, but you tout him as more deserving of the money he gets.... he plays NO defense and has a 100 mil contract. funny how that works.
gasol is very talented. soft, euro, but competitive, and a winner. cant argue it.
nowitski. plays no defense. elite beyond elite offensively. is he worth the money?
garnett is getting so old he isnt even a second option scorer on his team.
duncan, again, was once amazing, now aging and a solid role player.
lewis... really?

big al is definitely top 5 offensively in my book.