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do NOT bring back George Hill

tonstermits said:
With this management and coaching staff I'm sure Karl would have missed more games.
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You might be right about Karl missing more games but if so, I don't think it is about Jazz management and Jazz coaching staff. There is a now a different culture in the NBA that is being fueled by agents and science on longevity and also teams being much more focused on April - June.
 
jope said:
what matters is have they been missing games recently (past few seasons). there are guy who have moderately serious injuries early in their careers and then go on to play consistently for many more injury free. There are others who are injury free in their youth and then start wearing out and breaking down as they age. What is important is what's happening now (past couple years is still relatively current). What is happening NOW, is that george hill has now missed 82 games in the last 3 seasons, which no matter how much you spin it, is significant.
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You keep wording it badly to fit your narrative. Plus you fail to mention he hasnt missed any time in the playoffs.

Also like how to capitalize NOW to talk about things that happened in the past. NOW he is missing games due to a toe injury and he is going to be back for the playoffs. Why not use NOW to talk about 4 years, 5 years, 6 years? Is it just because 3 years conveniently makes your narrative juicier?
 
I love Hill. Great character guy, smart player, competes, and is our best option at point. That being said, we can't hamstring ourselves paying $20 mil for him, especially when he doesn't outclass our 2nd option commensurate to how big a hole that contract would dig for us. The Joes and Faves are players that can be had for reasonable-by-nba-standards who are the meat on the bones that every team needs to be able to compete. We go for Hill, we lose at least one of others. I'd rather have all 3 and Exum / Neto.
 
Et tu Brute said:
I love Exum. Like favorite player love. And I believe he can figure this thing out. But.....

If Exum is the starter next year, it means the Jazz are most likely regressing - at least in the short term.
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I don't think Exum is a PG. He gets in panic mode too easily on passes and just throws the ball around carelessly.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
You keep wording it badly to fit your narrative. Plus you fail to mention he hasnt missed any time in the playoffs.

Also like how to capitalize NOW to talk about things that happened in the past. NOW he is missing games due to a toe injury and he is going to be back for the playoffs. Why not use NOW to talk about 4 years, 5 years, 6 years? Is it just because 3 years conveniently makes your narrative juicier?
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lol because 5 or 6 years is more than the average NBA career length. who in their right mind would say that 6 years ago = today? if you want to really talk about NOW.. right NOW.. he has missed half the season, and is primed to take a quarter of the jazz's money that could be spent on players that actually play.
 
jope said:
lol because 5 or 6 years is more than the average NBA career length. who in their right mind would say that 6 years ago = today? if you want to really talk about NOW.. right NOW.. he has missed half the season, and is primed to take a quarter of the jazz's money that could be spent on players that actually play.
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Cool. You know what? He has missed half the season (actually he has played 6 games over half) and still has the 3rd most win shares on the team. He is the team's 3rd best player. I dont see any oppurtunity to add antoher player better than George Hill in the future unless we do some kind of blockbuster deal that let's us keep Hayward/Gobert while getting another All-Star.

Rodney Hood hasn't shown any improvement this year in his ability to stay on the court or be a consistent playmaker. Exum is still more of a prospect than a player. Favors has a more worrying injury rap-sheet and his style of play clearly isnt inline with what Snyder sees as his ideal PF. Those are the players who are up to get paid next. I'd rather keep George Hill over all of them. George Hill gives us the best chance to be a great team. Without George Hill you are praying on Hood and Favors to stop having chronic knee problems and for Exum to actually mature into a NBA PG and not just a perimeter defender who will periodically put on a faux PG hat.

You sign George Hill now and figure it out later. It gives us the best chance to compete next year. Hell next year might be our best chance for this core while we still have a capable Joe Johnson as well as Favors/Exum/Hood all motivated by contract years. If you don't re-sign Hill the Jazz would be lucky to build a better team with the next handful of years and the issue of paying the next contracts will always be present.
 
I'd give him $20M.

Would walk at $25M+.

I think with the smaller cap projections, some of the absurd FA money will dry up this offseason. I don't think he's in for quite the bonanza that he's expecting.
 
bigmike said:
I'd give him $20M.

Would walk at $25M+.

I think with the smaller cap projections, some of the absurd FA money will dry up this offseason. I don't think he's in for quite the bonanza that he's expecting.
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It only takes 1 team to drive the price up.
 
I think IF we were going to resign HIll the time to do so was a renegotiate and extend a few months back. The fact taht we didn't do so then leads me to believe that the two sides are so far apart on value that it will be impossible to resign him to a deal that the Jazz would feel comfortable offering. Further complicating matters is the Jazz salary structure which is ENTIRELY busted if we do sign Hill to a big deal.

I just don't think we can afford to keep him. I'm not terribly excited about the prospect of relying on Exum and Neto next year, but, that might be the best we can do unless we are willing to go into the luxury tax. And going into the tax is something I wouldn't do for this team. So, I don't expect Mrs. Miller to be willing either.

Jazz paid a lotto pick for half a season of George Hill. I think that will look really bad in hindsight. It's looking like either a bad decision that will end up a sunk cost, or DL will have to do some incredible financial gymnastics to keep HIll. I don't think DL has that kind of mojo.

We will see.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Cool. You know what? He has missed half the season (actually he has played 6 games over half) and still has the 3rd most win shares on the team. He is the team's 3rd best player. I dont see any oppurtunity to add antoher player better than George Hill in the future unless we do some kind of blockbuster deal that let's us keep Hayward/Gobert while getting another All-Star.

Rodney Hood hasn't shown any improvement this year in his ability to stay on the court or be a consistent playmaker. Exum is still more of a prospect than a player. Favors has a more worrying injury rap-sheet and his style of play clearly isnt inline with what Snyder sees as his ideal PF. Those are the players who are up to get paid next. I'd rather keep George Hill over all of them. George Hill gives us the best chance to be a great team. Without George Hill you are praying on Hood and Favors to stop having chronic knee problems and for Exum to actually mature into a NBA PG and not just a perimeter defender who will periodically put on a faux PG hat.

You sign George Hill now and figure it out later. It gives us the best chance to compete next year. Hell next year might be our best chance for this core while we still have a capable Joe Johnson as well as Favors/Exum/Hood all motivated by contract years. If you don't re-sign Hill the Jazz would be lucky to build a better team with the next handful of years and the issue of paying the next contracts will always be present.
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well said, and i agree. I am definitely still worried about it, but he is probably our best bet. Still on the fence about whether a worse-than-GH (but better than exum, neto, and mack) point guard playing 75 games is better than a great george hill playing 60 games, but i'd still probably pay hill and hope he stays healthy.
 
jazzfan1971 said:
I'm not terribly excited about the prospect of relying on Exum and Neto next year, but, that might be the best we can do unless we are willing to go into the luxury tax.
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We've basically been doing the bolded for half the season already. that said, i'd like to keep hill but it's not the end of the world if we lose him.
 
jazzfan1971 said:
I think IF we were going to resign HIll the time to do so was a renegotiate and extend a few months back. The fact taht we didn't do so then leads me to believe that the two sides are so far apart on value that it will be impossible to resign him to a deal that the Jazz would feel comfortable offering. Further complicating matters is the Jazz salary structure which is ENTIRELY busted if we do sign Hill to a big deal.

I just don't think we can afford to keep him. I'm not terribly excited about the prospect of relying on Exum and Neto next year, but, that might be the best we can do unless we are willing to go into the luxury tax. And going into the tax is something I wouldn't do for this team. So, I don't expect Mrs. Miller to be willing either.

Jazz paid a lotto pick for half a season of George Hill. I think that will look really bad in hindsight. It's looking like either a bad decision that will end up a sunk cost, or DL will have to do some incredible financial gymnastics to keep HIll. I don't think DL has that kind of mojo.

We will see.
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Naw, a 4/5 seed from being out of the playoffs is worth a late lottery pick. Playoffs are important. Winning is important.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Cool. You know what? He has missed half the season (actually he has played 6 games over half) and still has the 3rd most win shares on the team. He is the team's 3rd best player. I dont see any oppurtunity to add antoher player better than George Hill in the future unless we do some kind of blockbuster deal that let's us keep Hayward/Gobert while getting another All-Star.

Rodney Hood hasn't shown any improvement this year in his ability to stay on the court or be a consistent playmaker. Exum is still more of a prospect than a player. Favors has a more worrying injury rap-sheet and his style of play clearly isnt inline with what Snyder sees as his ideal PF. Those are the players who are up to get paid next. I'd rather keep George Hill over all of them. George Hill gives us the best chance to be a great team. Without George Hill you are praying on Hood and Favors to stop having chronic knee problems and for Exum to actually mature into a NBA PG and not just a perimeter defender who will periodically put on a faux PG hat.

You sign George Hill now and figure it out later. It gives us the best chance to compete next year. Hell next year might be our best chance for this core while we still have a capable Joe Johnson as well as Favors/Exum/Hood all motivated by contract years. If you don't re-sign Hill the Jazz would be lucky to build a better team with the next handful of years and the issue of paying the next contracts will always be present.
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3rd best player X half the games = 6th best player at best. Should get the 6th most money. Simple math.
 
LogGrad98 said:
3rd best player X half the games = 6th best player at best. Should get the 6th most money. Simple math.
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That's assuming players 4, 5, and 6 are exactly the same ability as player 3. If they are not, then your math is suspect.
 
Aren't the projections only a bit off from what they were last summer? IIRC it was 102 and now it is 101. I don't think that is big enough of a difference to change what Hill will be offered.
 
JohnnyClutch said:
I love Hill. Great character guy, smart player, competes, and is our best option at point. That being said, we can't hamstring ourselves paying $20 mil for him, especially when he doesn't outclass our 2nd option commensurate to how big a hole that contract would dig for us. The Joes and Faves are players that can be had for reasonable-by-nba-standards who are the meat on the bones that every team needs to be able to compete. We go for Hill, we lose at least one of others. I'd rather have all 3 and Exum / Neto.
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And how can you be so sure of this? Meat and potato players might be pretty high on a GM's list who has nothing but vegetables on his roster.
 
colton said:
That's assuming players 4, 5, and 6 are exactly the same ability as player 3. If they are not, then your math is suspect.
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No dude, if Lebron misses half the season then a full season of Joe Ingles is clearly more valuable.
 
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