Do you feel the front office is to blame?

[Game6Conley]

No. I didn't want them to match that offer. I was very vocal about it. (Though with hindsight matching was the right move and I was wrong. Haywood was worth that contract. The money we paid him never hurt the jazz)

I was also very vocal about wanting to trade Haywood for a top 3 pick last year (might have even been able to get more on top of the draft pick).

The rumor was PHX was willing to trade the 4th and 13th pick. The Jazz also spent the 12th pick trying to APPEASE Hayward. Thats 3 lottery picks vanished into thin air, no return, just one year later.

What exactly did Hayward bring to the table anyways in the past few years, they'd have been better off without him and tanking, he NEVER at any point made them real contenders.

The truth is they paid a big price just so they could be pretenders. End of story.

 

[BENTLEY]

Fans are to blame with their dumb letter the stayward billboards

Front Office is to blame with putting all their eggs in the Hayward basket

Quin is to blame for not playing the young players in the playoffs allowing them to feel the playoff feeling

Jazz development team is to blame for focusing on old Joe Ingles and Hayward

The media is to blame because they had Haywards junk in their mind that not one of them until now have written anything but Hayward fluff pieces to further drive fans to be irrational on Hayward's value.

I agree with a lot of this.
AND I AM SO GLAD I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE HAYWARD PROPAGANDA BLARING IN MY EARS FROM ALL SIDES ANYMORE!!!!

 

[Game6Conley]

It's simple. They cater to simplistic fans' desires as a marketing ploy instead of caring to win.

I said this before in my rants about being "win-now"... Thats really what was accomplished... They sold Hayward jersey's and a few more tickets...

This wasn't some plan with a long-term winning outlook. Not a plan to have a window open for a long time, it was some sort of strike when the iron's hot plan, and the iron wasn't ****ing hot...


Its either that or like I've said before; the Front office underestimated the capacity of the threat in the western conference, mainly the Warriors.

Either way they're at fault.

 

[Game6Conley]

I agree with a lot of this.
AND I AM SO GLAD I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE HAYWARD PROPAGANDA BLARING IN MY EARS FROM ALL SIDES ANYMORE!!!!

The media caters to the local franchise for a long list of reasons. Thats why you wont see an article in your local papers addressing what I have. You wont hear company shill David Locke point the finger at the front office. Instead you'll hear grown *** men playing the victim card. It's pathetic, eyes wide shut, and contrived. It's damage control, forced narratives and a charade.

The story here isn't that Hayward left, it's that the front office should've traded him at last years trade deadline, at last years draft at 2 years ago trade deadline, at 2 years ago draft, and so on and so forth --- but they balked, all for the 5th seed and a gamble that didn't pay off.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Giving Gordon a max deal last round without letting him test the market made no sense at all at the time and using 20/20 hindsight to criticize the decision makes even less sense. Gordon made a decision that defies logic from an economic and basketball standpoint. The things the Jazz FO could control they did a great job of controlling. There is some underlying rationale that Gordon is using to leave Utah but nothing that could be controlled by the Jazz. Maybe his wife really wants to live in Boston. And the thought that we trade our best player the year before they are eligible to leave simply means you have no chance at building a winner. This one hurts but time to move on.

This is a great post.

 

[mellow]

Yes the whole Jazz organization failed. Not because they were incompetent, not because they don't care, not because they don't work hard.

They didn't fail because they they should have scouted more, or worked out ten more players, or talked with 5 more agents.

The Jazz struggle because their core values - honesty, hard work, family, loyalty do not appeal to the majority of potential players, and in many cases it is probably a turn off.

In Haywood they thought they found their unicorn, an all-star level talent who was a family guy and model citizen. But even Haywood rejected their values even though it cost him a few cool million bucks.

Jazz are in a strange place. Do their(they hold to their) values and continue searching for the elusive "Jazz DNA" or do they go stone cold and run this thing like the rest of the league, where players are bought, sold and traded like used cars. Given the current landscape, I think I know what Larry would do.

 

[Game6Conley]

Here was my initial reaction to the George Hill trade that posters here literally poked fun at for months.

This trade is absolutely asinine, Very disappointed. Trey Burke status. 100% certainty that years down the line this will look foolish.

This move doesn't make Utah a threat to the top teams in the west. This is a move to appease the fanbase, baby steps type ****.

No way is this anywhere near maximum extracted value for the pick either.. This reeks of Dennis Lindsey playing favorites..

[MENTION=253]Saint Cy of JFC[/MENTION] I told you so many times I'd have the last laugh.

Imagine how bad this trade is going to look if George Hill gets injured.

this is terribly risky IMO.

Real-time reaction btw. as the news broke.

 

[Game6Conley]

Yes the whole Jazz organization failed. Not because they were incompetent, not because they don't care, not because they don't work hard.

They didn't fail because they they should have scouted more, or worked out ten more players, or talked with 5 more agents.

The Jazz struggle because their core values - honesty, hard work, family, loyalty do not appeal to the majority of potential players, and in many cases it is probably a turn off.

In Haywood they thought they found their unicorn, an all-star level talent who was a family guy and model citizen. But even Haywood rejected their values even though it cost him a few cool million bucks.

Jazz are in a strange place. Do their values and continue searching for the elusive "Jazz DNA" or do they go stone cold and run this thing like the rest of the league, where players are bought, sold and traded like used cars. Given the current landscape, I think I know what Larry would do.

What they need is a realistic plan and not to lose sight of the long-term outlook. 2 things they've failed miserably at in the past 2 off-seasons.

 

[BENTLEY]

It's simple. They cater to simplistic fans' desires as a marketing ploy instead of caring to win.

But the Jazz PR team created this mess. They pimped Hayward to the fanbase (although a few of us weren't having it).

They constantly coddled Hayward to be what they were telling the fanbase he already was.
David Locke, Matt Harpring, et all repeated the campaign talking points over and over and apologized for Hayward so many times, "that was great form on that miss" "he's having a really bad shooting night but he's actually really good (your eye's are deceiving you)."

You, the fans, have been dicked over by the Jazz PR team. I'm sorry you believed them. I wanted to believe them, but I just couldn't do it. I've been a Hayter for 90% of HowdyDoody's stay here (I tried to get on board for a second but I just couldn't sustain it).
But the thing that drove me crazy was the propaganda. Thankfully that propaganda is over. Hayward is a better player now than he was originally, but he's still not a max player. Thankfully, we don't have to listen to that advertisement anymore.

BUT who is to blame exactly? It's hard to know, since the FO/PR team were unified on the talking points.
DL has made some pretty great moves (this last draft helped his rep a bit and, Rubio's negatives aside, it didn't cost very much to get him and he's still pretty young - I'm on board with that).

But DL has made some dumb moves too: when he acquiesced to Ty Corbin's wish to trade 2 draft picks to move up for Burke. BUT DL made sure everyone knew that was on Ty and not him. Ok fine, it hurts, but I saw still elated that draft that DL was able to acquire the 27th pick to grab RUDY!!! That was great I was so relieved that draft. (Still, coulda had Giannis or McCollum or Shroeder AND Rudy).
So DL made a mistake that draft by acquiescing.


I wonder (speculate) if, for business reasons, the ownership christened Hayward the heir to the throne (stupid move) and refused to ever re-think it. And when reality didn't fit with that business plan, the ownership covered their ears, shut their eyes, and pig-headedly stuck with it. And perhaps DL acquiesced once again.

This is speculation but it's not like events of the past 7 years haven't been head scratching enough to make me wonder.

I still feel pretty good about DL as GM, but hopefully he learns from these mistakes. He probably needs more final say on things.

 

[gregbroncs]

Nope. I don't feel the FO is to blame.

 

[BENTLEY]

Back in the day (before his injury woes) it was Alec Burks that flashed star potential. But Jazz management chose Hayward as their guy. It didn't line up with what I saw during the games. Burks was the guy you get behind, but no. Hayward. It's like Hayward to the Jazz is like Austin Rivers is to his dad. Or something.

JAZZ MANAGEMENT: DONOVAN MITCHELL IS WORTHY OF BEING CODDLED. HE'S ALREADY WAY MORE EFFUSIVE IN HIS LOVE OF THE ORGANIZATION THAN TURKEY SUB EVER WAS. DON'T **** THIS UP.

 

[Gameface]

The rumor was PHX was willing to trade the 4th and 13th pick. The Jazz also spent the 12th pick trying to APPEASE Hayward. Thats 3 lottery picks vanished into thin air, no return, just one year later.

What exactly did Hayward bring to the table anyways in the past few years, they'd have been better off without him and tanking, he NEVER at any point made them real contenders.

The truth is they paid a big price just so they could be pretenders. End of story.

Yes, every team should tank every year if they're not bound for the championships. The NBA will be a competition to see who can lose the most. Super ****ing fun. Whoppeee!

Dumb as ****.

 

[BENTLEY]

Hayward isn't as good as the PR team said.

The Jazz didn't suffer much of a loss talent wise. They got guys that can step into the Hayward shoes and do probably better. Yeah, I believe that.

I love Rodney, I love Alec, I LOVE Donovan. I'm sad the FO got NOTHING for their "star" but I'm glad he's gone. This team is gonna be way more fun to watch. They will probably still make the playoffs.

 

[BENTLEY]

I'm not an advocate of tanking (not anymore since all it got us was Exum, who we're still hoping can give us a decent return on investment, and Rudy was had at 27).

I'm super excited about this team going forward.

The Jazz FO were blind. They idealized Hayward into something he never was.
It's like they were in a relationship with someone that their objective friends (or fans) were screaming "get out! She's not into you! Stop thinking you can save this!!"


It's over. She left you. I know you don't believe me, but you're better off.

 

[franklin]

But the Jazz PR team created this mess. They pimped Hayward to the fanbase (although a few of us weren't having it).

They constantly coddled Hayward to be what they were telling the fanbase he already was.
David Locke, Matt Harpring, et all repeated the campaign talking points over and over and apologized for Hayward so many times, "that was great form on that miss" "he's having a really bad shooting night but he's actually really good (your eye's are deceiving you)."

You, the fans, have been dicked over by the Jazz PR team. I'm sorry you believed them. I wanted to believe them, but I just couldn't do it. I've been a Hayter for 90% of HowdyDoody's stay here (I tried to get on board for a second but I just couldn't sustain it).
But the thing that drove me crazy was the propaganda. Thankfully that propaganda is over. Hayward is a better player now than he was originally, but he's still not a max player. Thankfully, we don't have to listen to that advertisement anymore.

BUT who is to blame exactly? It's hard to know, since the FO/PR team were unified on the talking points.
DL has made some pretty great moves (this last draft helped his rep a bit and, Rubio's negatives aside, it didn't cost very much to get him and he's still pretty young - I'm on board with that).

But DL has made some dumb moves too: when he acquiesced to Ty Corbin's wish to trade 2 draft picks to move up for Burke. BUT DL made sure everyone knew that was on Ty and not him. Ok fine, it hurts, but I saw still elated that draft that DL was able to acquire the 27th pick to grab RUDY!!! That was great I was so relieved that draft. (Still, coulda had Giannis or McCollum or Shroeder AND Rudy).
So DL made a mistake that draft by acquiescing.


I wonder (speculate) if, for business reasons, the ownership christened Hayward the heir to the throne (stupid move) and refused to ever re-think it. And when reality didn't fit with that business plan, the ownership covered their ears, shut their eyes, and pig-headedly stuck with it. And perhaps DL acquiesced once again.

This is speculation but it's not like events of the past 7 years haven't been head scratching enough to make me wonder.

I still feel pretty good about DL as GM, but hopefully he learns from these mistakes. He probably needs more final say on things.

1. Gullible fans. They've already been in the cognitive dissonance mode for months with all the "I don't care, Jazz will be okay either way" nonsense. They will support "their" team no matter how abused they get. They're like a beaten wives who keep coming back no matter how abusive the relationship gets.


2. Trey, Rodney, Trey, Burke, Burks, Kanter, Exum, and all of their 2nd round pick busts for years.

Without getting extremely lucky again in the draft (Gobert), the Jazz are headed to Al Jefferson land again and will proceed to blow it up afterward. I've said this for years and now the spaghetti is no longer al dente. It's sticking to the window.

 

[Goodluckchuck]

Hayward isn't as good as the PR team said.

The Jazz didn't suffer much of a loss talent wise. They got guys that can step into the Hayward shoes and do probably better. Yeah, I believe that.

I love Rodney, I love Alec, I LOVE Donovan. I'm sad the FO got NOTHING for their "star" but I'm glad he's gone. This team is gonna be way more fun to watch. They will probably still make the playoffs.

I agree! Hayward needs the ball in his hands to be of value. With IT, I'll be interested to see how well he does for them. Because if he doesn't produce to the contract he was given, the media out there will eat him alive


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Diamond77]

I'm curious to listen Lindsey's excuses...he is a good speaker.

 

[JazzForLifee]

there is no excuse. hayward just left. front office did everything they could.

 

[8]

What's the problem?

 

[Doc Cherno]

I blame Hayward's agent. I think we got played to sign Ingles to a good contract. Who, percentage-wise, profited the most by this week's shenanigans? Pretty clear to me.
That said, I do think we'll miss Hayward's level of play. I think we've still got pieces and there's obviously likely some changes to come. Right now I don't expect us to make the playoffs or at best the 8th spot, but the future isn't all bleak. Gobert and 4 dudes is at least a team worth watching. Gobert, Rubio and what I think Donovan will become looks like a promising team. Add another star in there somehow and we're at least where we were this year with still mostly youth on our side. I say good luck to Boston and everybody not named GS winning it all in the next 2-3 years.