Does Sexton Get Traded?

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yep, then the team got worse. And it's still that worse team currently.


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So everyone getting a year older is a worse team just because Simone and KO are gone? That means that Walker/Keyonte/Hendricks are complete ***.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So everyone getting a year older is a worse team just because Simone and KO are gone? That means that Walker/Keyonte/Hendricks are complete ***.

Simone/KO/Dunn all gone. Even THT with his nonsense was one of our better on/off guys. 3.5 rotation pieces replaced by rookies and second year guys.

 

[sip]

So everyone getting a year older is a worse team just because Simone and KO are gone? That means that Walker/Keyonte/Hendricks are complete ***.

You always seem to be giving our players the benefit of the doubt and downplay opposing teams. Yes our players will likely improve but you can say the same thing about a bunch of the teams above us. Also the margin of difference from a starting point is pretty wide when it comes to us improving enough to jump the teams that may stagnate or regress a little bit. The clippers are the only team in the west that had talent subtraction with the loss of George and even then I think they are still a better team than us if Kawhi and Harden are somewhat healthy and they have zero incentive to tank.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Sexton has two years left on his deal. What are we tanking for? We going to ask Sexton to sit some games so we can draft a guard, the most likely outcome given 3 of the 5 consensus top guys are guards (Harper/Edgecombe/Traore), who will replace you or limit your minutes in your contract year?

You either trade Sexton or have him play balls out. Don’t think that dude is wired for in between. I understand the pro-tank mentality, but I think that ship sailed when the Jazz lucked out and got a franchise player to build around in the Mitchell trade. I don’t think they have the ability to tank more effectively than they could have that season, but they screwed the pooch by going into the year with too many good players like Conley, Olynyk and Clarkson. Oh well. I guess we’ll see what DA has planned in the next few days.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You always seem to be giving our players the benefit of the doubt and downplay opposing teams. Yes our players will likely improve but you can say the same thing about a bunch of the teams above us. Also the margin of difference from a starting point is pretty wide when it comes to us improving enough to jump the teams that may stagnate or regress a little bit. The clippers are the only team in the west that had talent subtraction with the loss of George and even then I think they are still a better team than us if Kawhi and Harden are somewhat healthy and they have zero incentive to tank.

We also tend to assume every other team will have injuries and we won't. Like if Sexton has some hamstring issues like 2 years ago he misses half the season and we are firmly in the bottom 5. Lauri has a shoulder injury we milk for 25 games...

I think the key to the tank is sucking out of the gate. Instead of going 10-3 like we did in 2022 if we had gone 3-10 it makes things so much easier. Starting 10-10 or some **** means the plug has to get pulled hard.

 

[fishonjazz]

So everyone getting a year older is a worse team just because Simone and KO are gone? That means that Walker/Keyonte/Hendricks are complete ***.

It means the entire team is younger.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

It means the entire team is younger.

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The key players are a year older...

 

[KqWIN]

We also tend to assume every other team will have injuries and we won't. Like if Sexton has some hamstring issues like 2 years ago he misses half the season and we are firmly in the bottom 5. Lauri has a shoulder injury we milk for 25 games...

I think the key to the tank is sucking out of the gate. Instead of going 10-3 like we did in 2022 if we had gone 3-10 it makes things so much easier. Starting 10-10 or some **** means the plug has to get pulled hard.

Any team is capable of a hot start and that includes the Jazz….I just think it’s a lot less likely than year’s past. We don’t have a team of vets and if the roster stands as is I don’t think there is any expectation that we compete for anything. We’re not going to start out 100% full tank…but I think we’re also going to play in a way/manage injuries that does not maximize wins. The veil is already somewhat lifted. We’re not gonna have any nonsense about people saying we’re trying to win to convey the pick, for example.

There will be a time where we pull the plug. I think it will come earlier this year. Hardy has proven to be fully complicit in a tanking/development effort, so I have no idea why he would be against it when the incentives are much greater and the chances of competing are much worse.

Lauri and Sexton are excellent, but they don’t exactly have the cleanest health records and it’s easier to pull the plug when your talent is concentrated in a fewer amount of players. We’re built more for a 7 game series than an 82 game season. Methinks that we are likely to advance to the different stages of tanking quicker than last year. I’d argue that we are already more advanced given that we don’t even have the reliable vets to trade this time around.

 

[NUMBERICA]

We also tend to assume every other team will have injuries and we won't. Like if Sexton has some hamstring issues like 2 years ago he misses half the season and we are firmly in the bottom 5. Lauri has a shoulder injury we milk for 25 games...

I think the key to the tank is sucking out of the gate. Instead of going 10-3 like we did in 2022 if we had gone 3-10 it makes things so much easier. Starting 10-10 or some **** means the plug has to get pulled hard.

Okay but how do you assure that? Feels like you’re making two different arguments (‘we don’t need to trade anyone right now, we can do that or milk injuries or whatever midseason / we need to suck to start the season).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Okay but how do you assure that? Feels like you’re making two different arguments (‘we don’t need to trade anyone right now, we can do that or milk injuries or whatever midseason / we need to suck to start the season).

I think you have to play the young guys early. I think we will be somewhere 6-8 but an injury after a slow start puts the ceiling much higher I guess. I don't think you can really assure it. I think the schedule gods need to help and coach has to be in on it... which may not happen.

Just kinda spitballing. Not making arguments per se. Just if you told me I get to look at the final standings but I get no context and I see we finished with the 3rd or 4th best lotto odds I might guess an injury happened and not a trade.

 

[KqWIN]

Okay but how do you assure that? Feels like you’re making two different arguments (‘we don’t need to trade anyone right now, we can do that or milk injuries or whatever midseason / we need to suck to start the season).

I don’t think these are two competing ideas. The possibility of Lauri/Sexton missing games (injury or not) is fairly high just based on history. But of course you can ensure they miss games by trading them. I think you can be realistic about what our season may look like but also be open/favorable to the idea of making that realistic outcome even more tanky.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don’t think these are two competing ideas. The possibility of Lauri/Sexton missing games (injury or not) is fairly high just based on history. But of course you can ensure they miss games by trading them. I think you can be realistic about what our season may look like but also be open/favorable to the idea of making that realistic outcome even more tanky.

I think they call that logic and reason lol. I've basically said that if I could get 80-90% of what I consider fair value for Sexton or Walker I would take it to aid the tank. If it drops below that I would find other means to aid the tank.

 

[KqWIN]

I think they call that logic and reason lol. I've basically said that if I could get 80-90% of what I consider fair value for Sexton or Walker I would take it to aid the tank. If it drops below that I would find other means to aid the tank.

I think I’m in the same boat. It’s kind of a shame because I think both players have a good chance to blossom elsewhere.

As far as what the FO will do, it’s tough to say. Neither Sexton nor Kessler seemed to be treated fairly. Not sure how many teams would bench Sexton for THT or Kessler for Collins, for example. But I still think DA is probably looking for 110-120% in any deal until the last minute. That may be to our detriment. For Sexton in particular, the thing that is looming is that he is not a long term fit with Key. I’m not 100% sold on Key, but if the FO is sold on him they may be more willing to trade Sexton.

I think it was a mistake two years in a row to drag the vets through the season and trade them at the last second. I wouldn’t say we got premium value for waiting and even if we did, was it really worth the anti tank? Sexton and Kessler are a bit different because they could have a long term future here.

 

[whatthe]

Lauri is well rested unlike many other all-stars in the Olympics. Technically he could get us some wins early on.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I think they call that logic and reason lol. I've basically said that if I could get 80-90% of what I consider fair value for Sexton or Walker I would take it to aid the tank. If it drops below that I would find other means to aid the tank.

1. What do you think 80-90% is for Sexton and Kessler, respectively?
2. If trading just one of them before the season is the difference in 2-3 draft slots and the corresponding odds, might that affect what you’d be willing to take back for trading them out before the season?

I will say to 1 that I don’t know what their value is supposed to be who the teams are supposed to be that might offer that. I will say to 2 that 2-3 slots and the odds difference can be the difference between massive success and failure, so taking, say 2/3rds of what I think is fair and right has appeal.

 

[footawn]

Sexton has to fit someone’s rotation. If he was a free agent, who would sign him? Find that team and ask for a couple seconds.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

1. What do you think 80-90% is for Sexton and Kessler, respectively?
2. If trading just one of them before the season is the difference in 2-3 draft slots and the corresponding odds, might that affect what you’d be willing to take back for trading them out before the season?

I will say to 1 that I don’t know what their value is supposed to be who the teams are supposed to be that might offer that. I will say to 2 that 2-3 slots and the odds difference can be the difference between massive success and failure, so taking, say 2/3rds of what I think is fair and right has appeal.

Good question... prolly 1.5 good picks each and no bad salary returning is pretty close to 100% of value. I won't quibble with anyone that says that's too high or too low. I pulled it out of my ***.

2- That's the reason to settle. I think anywhere between like 65% and 80% you still kind of consider it maybe but I'd have to feel strongly that they would ruin the tank if retained.

 

[fishonjazz]

The key players are a year older...

And still younger than the previous key players.

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[fishonjazz]

I think I’m in the same boat. It’s kind of a shame because I think both players have a good chance to blossom elsewhere.

As far as what the FO will do, it’s tough to say. Neither Sexton nor Kessler seemed to be treated fairly. Not sure how many teams would bench Sexton for THT or Kessler for Collins, for example. But I still think DA is probably looking for 110-120% in any deal until the last minute. That may be to our detriment. For Sexton in particular, the thing that is looming is that he is not a long term fit with Key. I’m not 100% sold on Key, but if the FO is sold on him they may be more willing to trade Sexton.

I think it was a mistake two years in a row to drag the vets through the season and trade them at the last second. I wouldn’t say we got premium value for waiting and even if we did, was it really worth the anti tank? Sexton and Kessler are a bit different because they could have a long term future here.

This

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[fishonjazz]

Sexton has to fit someone’s rotation. If he was a free agent, who would sign him? Find that team and ask for a couple seconds.

A couple seconds? Lol.
Sexton played at an all star level, is young, is on a good contract, is still improving, is a great culture guy and you think we should try to get a couple 2nds for him?

That's insane

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