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Donovan Mitchell unlikely to ask for trade per ESPN’s Brian Windhorst

KqWIN said:
We'll have to agree to disagree. I have way more belief in the desire to trade for a star like Donovan than I have fear of his value dropping off. Whenever you have a star player, I think the best method is to ask for the world and wait until you get it. The Nets are kinda being clowned on right now because there's no market for KD, but they're doing the right thing. I think it would be bad business for them to simply take the best offer that's available right now....and Durant is a much more high pressure situation where he's publicly demanded out and his downside risk is much greater. The Nets are showing good patience, and as a result of their patience I think they will get an offer closer to their high demands and better than the offers currently available. Danny Ainge is notorious for asking for to much. It's one of the main things he gets clowned on....but you know what, it's worked.

I think the fact that there aren't many buyers for Donovan right now really solidifies my stance on this. The market may be cool on Donovan right now, but that is all the more reason to wait it out. If there's one thing I'm not worried about, it's that there won't be interest in Donovan in the future. Teams are feeling good about themselves right now and what they did in the off-season, but things will not go as planned and teams will want to pivot. Things could also start to go well which forces a pivot to trading for Donovan, much like MIN pivoting to Gobert after a successful season. I have a strong belief that one way or another teams will find interest in Don.

MIA may be the only team with the desire to trade for Don right now, but I'd bet on that changing and they don't have a godfather offer to begin with. They've already traded a pick which limits the picks they can send out. They have one good young player, but otherwise you have to take back bad contracts to salary match. I just have a hard time believing that this is the best offer that we would receive in the next two years. When it comes to MIA in particular, I think this deal is legitimately permanently available. If, for example, we don't trade Don this year. I think the Heat would have the exact same deal on the table, but instead they could use Herro's bigger salary to close the gap instead of taking on contracts like Robinson and Lowry. When you're talking about taking on the contracts of Robinson and Lowry as has been mentioned, those contracts negate a lot of MIA's draft capital in value and MIA doesn't have more value to compensate for it.

There's just nothing about the current MIA package that makes me think we have to take it and run. The players package you're getting back is not great, the picks you're getting back are limited in quantity, and the quality of those picks isn't great either. This is very much settling IMO.
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I'm fine with that... I truly hate the state of limbo we are in though. I just feel like settling this battle might help win the war... If you told me that Danny will go out and acquire picks and expiring salary with our other useful players instead of cobbling something together for a 12 month last ride then I could get on board. I think we could settle for 80% of value and get the additional 20% by moving on now.
 
Keefe said:
Please, that Utahr caged heat would love to get in his pants…after a couple sexcapades, he won’t wanna leave.
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He might have multiple emotional affairs!
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'm fine with that... I truly hate the state of limbo we are in though. I just feel like settling this battle might help win the war... If you told me that Danny will go out and acquire picks and expiring salary with our other useful players instead of cobbling something together for a 12 month last ride then I could get on board. I think we could settle for 80% of value and get the additional 20% by moving on now.
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I don't think you get any value from moving on now versus later. Danny is doing exactly what you're wanting and beyond that. It doesn't bother meet to wait, although I understand why someone else would just want the Donovan chapter to end now because it's inevitable. From a human standpoint I get it, but I don't fundamentally believe it gives us the most for Donovan. At minimum, I would just wait for the Knicks to get a bit more desperate and put a package on the table. Sounds like they're content for now, but I think that will change and I think it will change for other teams not necessarily interested in Don right now. The Knicks have better young players, better salary matching contracts, all their picks, additional picks.....they just have more everything than the Heat. The Heat just don't have much to offer. Maybe you really like Tyler Herro, but beyond that it's bad contracts that MIA can compensate for because they have a limited selection of picks to begin with.
 
KqWIN said:
I don't think you get any value from moving on now versus later. Danny is doing exactly what you're wanting and beyond that. It doesn't bother meet to wait, although I understand why someone else would just want the Donovan chapter to end now because it's inevitable. From a human standpoint I get it, but I don't fundamentally believe it gives us the most for Donovan. At minimum, I would just wait for the Knicks to get a bit more desperate and put a package on the table. Sounds like they're content for now, but I think that will change and I think it will change for other teams not necessarily interested in Don right now. The Knicks have better young players, better salary matching contracts, all their picks, additional picks.....they just have more everything than the Heat. The Heat just don't have much to offer. Maybe you really like Tyler Herro, but beyond that it's bad contracts that MIA can compensate for because they have a limited selection of picks to begin with.
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I mean maybe... but we going to need to keep good players around Donovan right? So it means we won't sell off Bogey, Bev, Beasley, and Mike just for draft capital... we might actually spend some draft capital to complete the roster. You also have Hardy to establish a culture and a guy who is the biggest personality in the room that might not be on board. The further you get down the road the more you back yourself into a corner. We can say we will get more in a year... but what if Herro plays well and Don has a meh season with all the rebuild stuff? Like assets don't freeze in value... they move. If the offers are the same then you lost a season in a year that has a pretty good draft (I know your feelings there... but its a good one). We assume others get more desperate but the clock is ticking on us... and that is the exact line of thinking they are using to say "we will get him for less later".
 
KqWIN said:
I don't think you get any value from moving on now versus later. Danny is doing exactly what you're wanting and beyond that. It doesn't bother meet to wait, although I understand why someone else would just want the Donovan chapter to end now because it's inevitable. From a human standpoint I get it, but I don't fundamentally believe it gives us the most for Donovan. At minimum, I would just wait for the Knicks to get a bit more desperate and put a package on the table. Sounds like they're content for now, but I think that will change and I think it will change for other teams not necessarily interested in Don right now. The Knicks have better young players, better salary matching contracts, all their picks, additional picks.....they just have more everything than the Heat. The Heat just don't have much to offer. Maybe you really like Tyler Herro, but beyond that it's bad contracts that MIA can compensate for because they have a limited selection of picks to begin with.
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Also... what if the Heat go get Beal with that instead. I think Beal and Lillard end up on the trade market before the deadline... so a couple clips will get emptied in that pursuit potentially.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I mean maybe... but we going to need to keep good players around Donovan right? So it means we won't sell off Bogey, Bev, Beasley, and Mike just for draft capital... we might actually spend some draft capital to complete the roster. You also have Hardy to establish a culture and a guy who is the biggest personality in the room that might not be on board. The further you get down the road the more you back yourself into a corner. We can say we will get more in a year... but what if Herro plays well and Don has a meh season with all the rebuild stuff? Like assets don't freeze in value... they move. If the offers are the same then you lost a season in a year that has a pretty good draft (I know your feelings there... but its a good one). We assume others get more desperate but the clock is ticking on us... and that is the exact line of thinking they are using to say "we will get him for less later".
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We traded Royce right? I don’t think we’re holding onto the old guys because we need to have good players around Don. I think we’re holding onto them because we haven’t found a buyer. If so, they would have the same fate as Royce. I was skeptical of Danny, but no real reason to believe he wouldn’t. Even if you think this is the case….I’m not really one to say we should take a worse deal so it prevents us from doing bad follow up moves. When I’m thinking about these things, I’m thinking about making the correct moves throughout. I would be disappointed if we took this MIA deal. Whether not that prevented us from other bad decisions is not something I weigh heavily.

The Heat package is what it is because they can’t trade us more unless they’re including Bam. They aren’t doing that. If they had more picks to offer I think they would put them on the table, but they don’t. Fact is, the value they are giving up right now isn’t enough. If Herro looks a lot better and shows more value I will change my tone on this. But he could also stall out or have a slump. I don’t believe Herro is at a place right now where you’re getting him at a steal. Quickley and Toppin….those guys are undervalued. Herro is on the other side of the spectrum.

I’m not taking a deal now out of fear of a player, who I think is overrated, could get a lot better. Just not how I would operate. The trade we’re talking about would happen now so I’m going to ask for fair value now and not take less because it could change in a way I don’t expect.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Also... what if the Heat go get Beal with that instead. I think Beal and Lillard end up on the trade market before the deadline... so a couple clips will get emptied in that pursuit potentially.
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I see no scenario where either of these guys get traded - but especially Beal. He has to now have one of the most unmovable contracts in the league.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Also... what if the Heat go get Beal with that instead. I think Beal and Lillard end up on the trade market before the deadline... so a couple clips will get emptied in that pursuit potentially.
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But what if a different team gets involved, or the Knicks get desperate and want Mitchell? You can also conjure up a what-if scenario. I can make up a million what if scenarios that make it better for the Jazz.

Like I said before, I have stronger belief that teams will want Mitchell versus teams having less interest in Mitchell. As we speak right now, there appears to be only one team in play…MIA. They’re package isn’t good to begin with, so I’m willing to wait.
 
KqWIN said:
We traded Royce right? I don’t think we’re holding onto the old guys because we need to have good players around Don. I think we’re holding onto them because we haven’t found a buyer. If so, they would have the same fate as Royce. I was skeptical of Danny, but no real reason to believe he wouldn’t. Even if you think this is the case….I’m not really one to say we should take a worse deal so it prevents us from doing bad follow up moves. When I’m thinking about these things, I’m thinking about making the correct moves throughout. I would be disappointed if we took this MIA deal. Whether not that prevented us from other bad decisions is not something I weigh heavily.

The Heat package is what it is because they can’t trade us more unless they’re including Bam. They aren’t doing that. If they had more picks to offer I think they would put them on the table, but they don’t. Fact is, the value they are giving up right now isn’t enough. If Herro looks a lot better and shows more value I will change my tone on this. But he could also stall out or have a slump. I don’t believe Herro is at a place right now where you’re getting him at a steal. Quickley and Toppin….those guys are undervalued. Herro is on the other side of the spectrum.

I’m not taking a deal now out of fear of a player, who I think is overrated, could get a lot better. Just not how I would operate. The trade we’re talking about would happen now so I’m going to ask for fair value now and not take less because it could change in a way I don’t expect.
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We did... but I think that was partly us making sure we'd be under the tax and the value was good enough. I honestly think the plan is likely to trade Donovan and rebuild... but its not a "we must trade him" quest.

On Herro... I am not sure why him being under or over rated matters. He's flat out better than Quickly and Toppin and it isn't close. I like those guys as fliers... but come on... they put up huge numbers in end of season games that didn't matter and the on/off stuff is encouraging but Herro has played a key role on a finals team. Herro is #16 in the league in scoring per 36 and is 22. Some guys behind him in the same age range... Desmond Bane, Darius Garland, Lamelo Ball... I don't think he gets a ton better... but he will improve.
 
KqWIN said:
But what if a different team gets involved, or the Knicks get desperate and want Mitchell? You can also conjure up a what-if scenario. I can make up a million what if scenarios that make it better for the Jazz.

Like I said before, I have stronger belief that teams will want Mitchell versus teams having less interest in Mitchell. As we speak right now, there appears to be only one team in play…MIA. They’re package isn’t good to begin with, so I’m willing to wait.
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Correct... but the saying goes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I think Brooklyn, NY, and Miami are all willing to do a Donovan deal right now, but maybe at different price points.

Comparing a Knicks package of 4 unprotected firsts, Quickly, Toppin, and likely some unsavory salary in Fournier (slightly less negative than Duncan)... I just don't think its that far off and IF the heat deal was in my hand that has real value.

With every deal we pass up there is an opportunity cost you must factor in... you might think a better deal comes along but it doesn't and a replacement deal is absolutely not guaranteed. There will also be carrying costs to keeping Donovan... and maybe it all washes out and you do way better but you can't deny risk of loss and opportunity costs.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
We did... but I think that was partly us making sure we'd be under the tax and the value was good enough. I honestly think the plan is likely to trade Donovan and rebuild... but its not a "we must trade him" quest.

On Herro... I am not sure why him being under or over rated matters. He's flat out better than Quickly and Toppin and it isn't close. I like those guys as fliers... but come on... they put up huge numbers in end of season games that didn't matter and the on/off stuff is encouraging but Herro has played a key role on a finals team. Herro is #16 in the league in scoring per 36 and is 22. Some guys behind him in the same age range... Desmond Bane, Darius Garland, Lamelo Ball... I don't think he gets a ton better... but he will improve.
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Umm…yeah hard disagree. I do think how you rate a guy factors into this. Especially if you’re considering scenarios where things change drastically. If you’re weighing the potential that Herro gets immensely better, you don’t do that blind you do that with consideration and how likely you think that is to occur. If I’m not a high on a player, I’m not motivated to trade for him because I could be wrong.

Herro could turn into Michael Jordan. That doesn’t mean I trade for him valued at Michael Jordan. You’ve got to factor in how likely that is lmao.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Correct... but the saying goes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I think Brooklyn, NY, and Miami are all willing to do a Donovan deal right now, but maybe at different price points.

Comparing a Knicks package of 4 unprotected firsts, Quickly, Toppin, and likely some unsavory salary in Fournier (slightly less negative than Duncan)... I just don't think its that far off and IF the heat deal was in my hand that has real value.

With every deal we pass up there is an opportunity cost you must factor in... you might think a better deal comes along but it doesn't and a replacement deal is absolutely not guaranteed. There will also be carrying costs to keeping Donovan... and maybe it all washes out and you do way better but you can't deny risk of loss and opportunity costs.
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If you take this deal, the opportunity cost is any other deal you could have had. It goes both ways. There are potential downsides of taking this deal right now and you can’t deny those either.

Ultimately it comes down to whether or not you think this Heat deal is the best we can do….for me that is a clear no. If this is the best we can get for Mitchell I’d be very surprised. If you love Herro you might feel differently, but Robinson alone negates a lot of the draft capital you’re getting which is limited and not high quality to begin with.
 
KqWIN said:
If you take this deal, the opportunity cost is any other deal you could have had. It goes both ways. There are potential downsides of taking this deal right now and you can’t deny those either.

Ultimately it comes down to whether or not you think this Heat deal is the best we can do….for me that is a clear no. If this is the best we can get for Mitchell I’d be very surprised. If you love Herro you might feel differently, but Robinson alone negates a lot of the draft capital you’re getting which is limited and not high quality to begin with.
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3 unprotected 1sts and 3 pick swaps 1sts including their 1st rounder this year (Jovic) is hardly limited draft capital.
 
KqWIN said:
If you take this deal, the opportunity cost is any other deal you could have had. It goes both ways. There are potential downsides of taking this deal right now and you can’t deny those either.

Ultimately it comes down to whether or not you think this Heat deal is the best we can do….for me that is a clear no. If this is the best we can get for Mitchell I’d be very surprised. If you love Herro you might feel differently, but Robinson alone negates a lot of the draft capital you’re getting which is limited and not high quality to begin with.
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For sure... but I'm not saying we can't do better... we might do better. You are saying... "nah this deal is there later nbd". Thats the difference.
 
KqWIN said:
Umm…yeah hard disagree. I do think how you rate a guy factors into this. Especially if you’re considering scenarios where things change drastically. If you’re weighing the potential that Herro gets immensely better, you don’t do that blind you do that with consideration and how likely you think that is to occur. If I’m not a high on a player, I’m not motivated to trade for him because I could be wrong.

Herro could turn into Michael Jordan. That doesn’t mean I trade for him valued at Michael Jordan. You’ve got to factor in how likely that is lmao.
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Herro isn't the one that has to get immensely better... it would be Quickly and Toppin that have to get better. He makes a slight jump and he's an all-star level player. I really think no one has actually looked at the numbers on the guy. #16 in per 36 scoring and #21 overall. He's basically at CJ McCollum's level currently... Quickley has to make a couple jumps before he gets to where Herro currently is... so lets factor in how likely that is lmao.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
For sure... but I'm not saying we can't do better... we might do better. You are saying... "nah this deal is there later nbd". Thats the difference.
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I think a package of this level is always going to be there for Mitchell. There’s nothing special about this package, and I do actually think the Heat themselves will have a better offer by the virtue of not having to use Robinson in a salary match next year. There’s a chance I’m wrong, but there’s also a chance that there’s a much better deal than this.
 
Elizah Huge said:
3 unprotected 1sts and 3 pick swaps 1sts including their 1st rounder this year (Jovic) is hardly limited draft capital.
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It is by definition limited because they owe a first and their second rounder through 2027. We also cannot get 3 unprotected first. It’s 2 max because their 2025 is protected.
 
KqWIN said:
It is by definition limited because they owe a first and their second rounder through 2027. We also cannot get 3 unprotected first. It’s 2 max because their 2025 is protected.
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Hey Sam it’s Pat… how are you? Good to hear… listen you know that 2025 1st of ours you own that’s top-14 protected? Yeah, how about you send a 2nd Utah’s way since you have a thousand of them and we will take off the protections? Sound good? Great, thanks.
 
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