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Espn's Ric Bucher says its a "matter of when, not if, a deal [will] be struck"

Sirkickyass said:
At some point these values do swing back around to pressure on the owners as well. That point is reached when franchise values start declining precipitously. I don't know when that happens, but even billionaires probably don't want to see their $200-500 million assets shrivel up and die.

And that's before we take account of knock-on effects on other business ventures.
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I don't see enough time passing for those to be huge issues. I think ultimately the players will cave. Right now, the owners I would have to say have public opinion on their side. I think Stern did a really good job of outlining the owner's concessions and the players didn't do a good job at all recently of telling us why they should be getting 53%. Of course this is my opinion. You might see it differently.
 
time for the NBA to turn to the scabs and get the show on the road.lotsa players would jump ship with the players union if they were getting a raise.let the stars start their own league or tryout for the nfl.most players would be playing in the NBA so lets start the season.
 
jumpin bean said:
time for the NBA to turn to the scabs and get the show on the road.lotsa players would jump ship with the players union if they were getting a raise.let the stars start their own league or tryout for the nfl.most players would be playing in the NBA so lets start the season.
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Fine, as long as they don't charge my season ticket account for that.
 
yes,tickets should be cut to half price,and all the people working selling hotdogs and such should get a raise too,since the big salary players savings would provide for that.
 
Sirkickyass said:
At some point these values do swing back around to pressure on the owners as well. That point is reached when franchise values start declining precipitously. I don't know when that happens, but even billionaires probably don't want to see their $200-500 million assets shrivel up and die.

And that's before we take account of knock-on effects on other business ventures.
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I think this is an interesting point. Anyone have any ideas when this might happen?

I'm guessing if the entire season is lost... And maybe even into next season. I'm not sure even many NHL franchises began to lose significant value... Or at least enough to pressure the owners.

I think the players will have felt enough pressure to cave before any of that were to happen....

The hotels, restaurants, and other workers are already feeling the pinch. This guy who works at ESA told me yesterday that he's already planning on missing between 4-5k if the season is canceled.

He also provided an interesting story, Phil Jackson used to always complain about the motorcycle. He said that the arena was already the loudest in the league and didn't need some obnoxious motorcycle to add to the noise. Bear got wind of it and supposedly parked the motorcycle right in front of the Lakers bench and revved up the engine at every opportunity.
 
The Thriller said:
I think this is an interesting point. Anyone have any ideas when this might happen?

I'm guessing if the entire season is lost... And maybe even into next season. I'm not sure even many NHL franchises began to lose significant value... Or at least enough to pressure the owners.

I think the players will have felt enough pressure to cave before any of that were to happen....

The hotels, restaurants, and other workers are already feeling the pinch. This guy who works at ESA told me yesterday that he's already planning on missing between 4-5k if the season is canceled.

He also provided an interesting story, Phil Jackson used to always complain about the motorcycle. He said that the arena was already the loudest in the league and didn't need some obnoxious motorcycle to add to the noise. Bear got wind of it and supposedly parked the motorcycle right in front of the Lakers bench and revved up the engine at every opportunity.
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The players I believe will crack before any of this happens.
 
The Thriller said:
I think this is an interesting point. Anyone have any ideas when this might happen?
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A few ways this could happen:

1) If enough games are lost that there becomes significant doubts that the league will ever come back. I believe that's a very late condition. Probably when the second season is on the verge of missing games. If the risk that two full seasons would be lost became appreciable it would be reasonable to believe that there is some significant risk that the NBA as presently constituted will never return.

2) If an alternative league is formed that appears to have a legitimate chance of sticking.

3) If it becomes apparent that the NBA begins losing stars to foreign leagues in a more permanent way. (Think if Lebron signed a 10 year contract with a Chinese team with no NBA outs for example, that would significantly negatively affect the value of the Heat).

4) If any single franchise folds entirely or an owner publicly requests that his investment be cashed out by the league.

All of these are not imminent conditions, but they serve as reminders that the current popular narrative of "the longer this goes the more pressure shifts to players" is untrue to the extent it reflects a one way street. Once an entire season is cancelled the primary costs of the lockout are already effectively locked in on the players and the game from that point on is one in which owners are probably fighting for a personal $300-500 million asset.
 
Sirkickyass said:
A few ways this could happen:

1) If enough games are lost that there becomes significant doubts that the league will ever come back. I believe that's a very late condition. Probably when the second season is on the verge of missing games. If the risk that two full seasons would be lost became appreciable it would be reasonable to believe that there is some significant risk that the NBA as presently constituted will never return.

2) If an alternative league is formed that appears to have a legitimate chance of sticking.

3) If it becomes apparent that the NBA begins losing stars to foreign leagues in a more permanent way. (Think if Lebron signed a 10 year contract with a Chinese team with no NBA outs for example, that would significantly negatively affect the value of the Heat).

4) If any single franchise folds entirely or an owner publicly requests that his investment be cashed out by the league.

All of these are not imminent conditions, but they serve as reminders that the current popular narrative of "the longer this goes the more pressure shifts to players" is untrue to the extent it reflects a one way street. Once an entire season is cancelled the primary costs of the lockout are already effectively locked in on the players and the game from that point on is one in which owners are probably fighting for a personal $300-500 million asset.
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So what you're saying is that the players should just stick to their guns? Kind of like what I was referring to earlier when Ogatard wanted the players to just say F it and cave?

If so, then I agree.
 
TroutBum said:
So what you're saying is that the players should just stick to their guns? Kind of like what I was referring to earlier when Ogatard wanted the players to just say F it and cave?

If so, then I agree.
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Frankly I would prefer they cave just so I could watch basketball. I don't have any real emotional investment on whether they receive 57% or 47% of BRI. It doesn't affect my well being at all.

I'm merely saying that the media spin machine narrative regarding the direction of leverage is not totally correct. Now, in order to leverage any of these potential opportunities to push owners to the idea that their team investments aren't safe they need to take action to make it apparent that there is imminent permanent damage to the value of the franchises. They should be talking to Larry Ellison about starting up a new league. They should leak that DWill loves it in Turkey and is recruiting others to join him there permanently if the entire season is lost. They should have their agents planting stories in the press about the increased willingness of NBA players to live overseas. They should be openly questioning how long other franchises are willing to support New Orleans' staff during a lockout. At their next negotiating session, if they are serious about pursuing other opportunities and having a hard line when Stern threatens to cancel more games they should tell him that rather than do it serially he might as well cancel the entire season if they're not willing to come off their demands so that the players can move forward with their pursuit of starting a new league.

In short, they are presently paying for the lockout. They need to make it clear that the owners have serious skin in the game and that games will be played with or without the owners. Someone out there has got to be willing to start the Modern ABA, and if they managed to get 50-60% of the league's stars in their league then the NBA's franchises may never recover their purchase value.

I don't really know how feasible that all is, but that's the negotiating position I would be taking.

*Full Disclosure: A former college roommate of mine is an attorney for the NBAPA. I occasionally discuss these issues with him, but I have no inside information regarding anything in the above post.*
 
Sirkickyass said:
A few ways this could happen:

1) If enough games are lost that there becomes significant doubts that the league will ever come back. I believe that's a very late condition. Probably when the second season is on the verge of missing games. If the risk that two full seasons would be lost became appreciable it would be reasonable to believe that there is some significant risk that the NBA as presently constituted will never return.

2) If an alternative league is formed that appears to have a legitimate chance of sticking.

3) If it becomes apparent that the NBA begins losing stars to foreign leagues in a more permanent way. (Think if Lebron signed a 10 year contract with a Chinese team with no NBA outs for example, that would significantly negatively affect the value of the Heat).

4) If any single franchise folds entirely or an owner publicly requests that his investment be cashed out by the league.

All of these are not imminent conditions, but they serve as reminders that the current popular narrative of "the longer this goes the more pressure shifts to players" is untrue to the extent it reflects a one way street. Once an entire season is cancelled the primary costs of the lockout are already effectively locked in on the players and the game from that point on is one in which owners are probably fighting for a personal $300-500 million asset.
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5) Other sports leagues (the NHL being the perfect example with their god awful VS deal) take a bigger slice of national and local TV money (unlike the Utah Jazz, most teams aren't getting by on gate receipts, relying instead on TV revenue).

And you're absolutely right. The national media has decided to completely avoid talking about how a lengthy lockout potentially hurts the value of NBA franchises. It boggles the mind.
 
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