Exum Update

[Ron Mexico]

Talent will win playoffs 1st and foremost.Learning from *Vets* who are rentals doesn't teach you how to win or make the playoffs like playing through your mistakes on the court.
Whether we like it or not ,watching drafted Utah players excel on other teams and watching Utah hit the reset button under Snyder is becoming a concern.

If we got to see Hood ,Favors,and Burks get traded then I'd like to see Hezonja or a Bender type player come back in return.

That is not true, it definitely helps teach you how to make the playoffs and win. Learning to practice and prep like an elite player helps you learn good habits. Young players learn a lot watching and being around good vets. JJ has been incredibly awesome for our team and young players. I trust Snyder knows what he is doing with Exum, who he talks about more than any other player and talks about his development. There are many ways to learn, some of those are playing and some of those are not.

For example Mitchell has learned a lot from JJ and others about how to eat properly and how important it is to take care of you body even at a young age. Most players dont start doing that until later in their career when they have to.

 

[LoPo]

I would rather pay someone else. Also I think that is too much to pay Mario.

That wasn't my point. I was saying I value him over Burks. Some on this forum keep talking about having to keep Burks if we trade Hood. I would trade both if we could replace Burks with a guy like Herzonja.

 

[ghsartin]

That is not true, it definitely helps teach you how to make the playoffs and win. Learning to practice and prep like an elite player helps you learn good habits. Young players learn a lot watching and being around good vets. JJ has been incredibly awesome for our team and young players. I trust Snyder knows what he is doing with Exum, who he talks about more than any other player and talks about his development. There are many ways to learn, some of those are playing and some of those are not.

For example Mitchell has learned a lot from JJ and others about how to eat properly and how important it is to take care of you body even at a young age. Most players dont start doing that until later in their career when they have to.

I'm not trying to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing, but I think that although you are theoretically right about Joe Johnson, you might be speculating quite a bit, since, for all we know, Mitchell already was quite mature when he arrived. And I'm saying that as someone who believed that Johnson would have a major impact, especially on Hood, since both play the same position and have somewhat similar bodies but it seems, unfortunatelly, that Hood has not picked a single move from Johnson during a season and a half, which is quite surprising, weird and puzzling.

 

[oneye]

Talent will win playoffs 1st and foremost.Learning from *Vets* who are rentals doesn't teach you how to win or make the playoffs like playing through your mistakes on the court.
Whether we like it or not ,watching drafted Utah players excel on other teams and watching Utah hit the reset button under Snyder is becoming a concern.

If we got to see Hood ,Favors,and Burks get traded then I'd like to see Hezonja or a Bender type player come back in return.

This is just wrong, don’t discredit what guys like Mitchell or Exum can learn from veterans. I think Donovan has learned a lot from Rubio, even with the struggle in Rubios play this season with the Jazz. At this point you absolutely want veterans teaching some of these guys. JJ is a liability on the court, but I think what guys like him do in teaching guys like Mitchell things is under appreciated. It helps when you have a guy like Donovan willing to listen and isn’t full of himself. This season, despite where guys go or who gets traded, will help Donovan long term, and even guys like Exum who hasn’t played. Veterans are an important part of the process with some of the guys we have now. Now, Donovan is Donovan and he is responsible most of all for everything he does, but guys adding to the perspective he has that have been through a long NBA career doesn’t hurt to have around.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I'm not trying to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing, but I think that although you are theoretically right about Joe Johnson, you might be speculating quite a bit, since, for all we know, Mitchell already was quite mature when he arrived. And I'm saying that as someone who believed that Johnson would have a major impact, especially on Hood, since both play the same position and have somewhat similar bodies but it seems, unfortunatelly, that Hood has not picked a single move from Johnson during a season and a half, which is quite surprising, weird and puzzling.

Mitchell said he ate like crap and just ate anything he could in college. I am speculating which vet helped him but he said that is what changed his mind and helped him start thinking about it.

Like many young players he said coaches had told him that info for awhile and it wasnt until vets showed him the importance.

Veteran players are often more influential on young players than their coaches. Someone like JJ who might be a HOF player telling you something can mean a lot more than your coach.

As far as Hood goes, I have seen all sorts of JJ moves from him this season. You can see JJs influence on Hood a lot in how he plays, I am not sure it is always a positive though.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

Playing vets and getting to the playoffs didnt hurt the development of our younger players last year and winning was not at the expense of the young guys. It did not hurt Exum's development. If anything it helped him to get to the playoffs and experience that. It also helped him to see vets play, practice and perform in games.

The alternative is we played Exum and Lyles (our only real young guys last year) a lot more and miss the playoffs. Those guys are no better off for that. We still lose Hayward, we still (hopefully) trade Lyles and Exum still gets hurt and is the same place development wise or worse because he didn't get to experience playoffs and how to win a series.

I don't agree with this at all. There's no substitute for playing in games and having game pressure and situations. Exum was definitely hurt by not playing much last year, and even more for not being allowed to make many mistakes while playing. Exum was better than Mack or at least as good and could have been more consistent with a more consistent role. It's incredibly hard to ask a young player to play consistently with a short leash. That is the opposite of how you are supposed to develop a young player. Mack was consistently bad unless he happened to be hitting shots that night, and I don't think he was any more dependable than Exum. Exum was at least giving you more defensively and not taking shots away from better options. I just don't buy this logic or argument at all. I think it was a mistake, and in the end they bet on the wrong horse (Hayward) instead of "not skipping steps". In some ways I blame DL because I think he should have eliminated the Mack temptation for Quin.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

This is just wrong, don’t discredit what guys like Mitchell or Exum can learn from veterans. I think Donovan has learned a lot from Rubio, even with the struggle in Rubios play this season with the Jazz. At this point you absolutely want veterans teaching some of these guys. JJ is a liability on the court, but I think what guys like him do in teaching guys like Mitchell things is under appreciated. It helps when you have a guy like Donovan willing to listen and isn’t full of himself. This season, despite where guys go or who gets traded, will help Donovan long term, and even guys like Exum who hasn’t played. Veterans are an important part of the process with some of the guys we have now. Now, Donovan is Donovan and he is responsible most of all for everything he does, but guys adding to the perspective he has that have been through a long NBA career doesn’t hurt to have around.

But Donovan is also getting to play and experience things which is a much much better way to learn quickly. There's a huge difference between having a vet to help out, and watching a vet with bad habits take all your minutes. Sure, you can learn some things even while benched, but I think it's ridiculous to compare that to what you can learn through playing, seeing yourself on film etc. I think that is the point he was making. Vets are fine as long as you are still giving the developmental players a chance to actually play and progress. In that situation they can be a great resource for the younger player.

 

[oneye]

But Donovan is also getting to play and experience things which is a much much better way to learn quickly. There's a huge difference between having a vet to help out, and watching a vet with bad habits take all your minutes. Sure, you can learn some things even while benched, but I think it's ridiculous to compare that to what you can learn through playing, seeing yourself on film etc. I think that is the point he was making. Vets are fine as long as you are still giving the developmental players a chance to actually play and progress. In that situation they can be a great resource for the younger player.

Being the Utah Jazz....you want guys like JJ and Diaw leaving the Jazz and being happy with their experiences here as well. You can’t sit them on the bench. Donovan is getting over 35 minutes most nights, is the face of the franchise, and has basically had this team turned over to him. In a season like this it’s perfectly fine to have a mix of keeping veterans happy as a respect thing and letting younger players learn from veterans and on court experiences. Donovan is getting a great mix of both and you also have to give guys like JJ the respect of letting them play minutes every night.

 

[str8line]

Mitchell said he ate like crap and just ate anything he could in college. I am speculating which vet helped him but he said that is what changed his mind and helped him start thinking about it.

Like many young players he said coaches had told him that info for awhile and it wasnt until vets showed him the importance.

Veteran players are often more influential on young players than their coaches. Someone like JJ who might be a HOF player telling you something can mean a lot more than your coach.

As far as Hood goes, I have seen all sorts of JJ moves from him this season. You can see JJs influence on Hood a lot in how he plays, I am not sure it is always a positive though.

In an interview Donovan said Rick Pitino demanded that he shed weight and that it instantly turned his eating habits around. He said he was eating a ton of Papa John's.

 

[Ron Mexico]

In an interview Donovan said Rick Pitino demanded that he shed weight and that it instantly turned his eating habits around. He said he was eating a ton of Papa John's.

He referenced that in the interview I listened to. He talked about how he ate less but not good. Even when he joined the Jazz he talked about the medical staff getting him to eat better, he said he had never eaten a salad before joining the Jazz. But that he is only know learning what it really means to eat right after seeing some of the other guys work so hard at it and what it means to their career.

There are lots of other examples of this type of stuff though. Vets teach rookies a lot. I think they can be much more influential than coaches.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

Being the Utah Jazz....you want guys like JJ and Diaw leaving the Jazz and being happy with their experiences here as well. You can’t sit them on the bench. Donovan is getting over 35 minutes most nights, is the face of the franchise, and has basically had this team turned over to him. In a season like this it’s perfectly fine to have a mix of keeping veterans happy as a respect thing and letting younger players learn from veterans and on court experiences. Donovan is getting a great mix of both and you also have to give guys like JJ the respect of letting them play minutes every night.

I think there's a big difference between a JJ level player and a Mack level player. I was actually ok with how they handled Lyles last year. They gave him a chance to have a consistent role through december and he was awful and then collapsed mentally. With Exum it was just like he could never hold on to a consistent role for longer than a couple games. Quick hooks all the time, and early in the season he was already getting DNP's in favor of Shelvin Mack. Again this is Shelvin Mack we are talking about who shot us out of games and couldn't play defense at all.

Really my only personal beef is with Exum and Mack. That was a corbinesque situation for no real reason. I thought Diaw, JJ, and the vets this year have all been great additions and have been used well most of the time.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

I think there's a big difference between a JJ level player and a Mack level player. I was actually ok with how they handled Lyles last year. They gave him a chance to have a consistent role through december and he was awful and then collapsed mentally. With Exum it was just like he could never hold on to a consistent role for longer than a couple games. Quick hooks all the time, and early in the season he was already getting DNP's in favor of Shelvin Mack. Again this is Shelvin Mack we are talking about who shot us out of games and couldn't play defense at all.

Really my only personal beef is with Exum and Mack. That was a corbinesque situation for no real reason. I thought Diaw, JJ, and the vets this year have all been great additions and have been used well most of the time.

Lol, the Mack/Exum situation occurred because Exum couldn’t shoot or create, at all. Mack could, inconsistently, but could shoot 3’s and spread the floor. SPREAD THE FLOOR. We’re seeing first hand how important spacing is in Quin’s offense and how it contributed to our success last season. With a team that still struggled to score at times, with a playoff birth on the line, you pick the player that makes your offense better. You have Rudy Gobert to anchor the defense, and Exum’s scoring weaknesses clearly outweighed his defensive strengths. Exum underperformed when minutes we’re crucial. Quin made the right, very unfortunate call. Not Corbinesque. At all.


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[Douchebag K]

Lol, the Mack/Exum situation occurred because Exum couldn’t shoot or create, at all. Mack could, inconsistently, but could shoot 3’s and spread the floor. SPREAD THE FLOOR. We’re seeing first hand how important spacing is in Quin’s offense and how it contributed to our success last season. With a team that still struggled to score at times, with a playoff birth on the line, you pick the player that makes your offense better. You have Rudy Gobert to anchor the defense, and Exum’s scoring weaknesses clearly outweighed his defensive strengths. Exum underperformed when minutes we’re crucial. Quin made the right, very unfortunate call. Not Corbinesque. At all.


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You mean the Shelvin Mack who shot 30% from 3pt last year ?? k

 

[416Klawzz]

I really hope Exum pays off for us and becomes the player this organization envisioned him to be, but there is a part of me that wonders what position would we be in now, had we selected someone else with that high pick ... again we can always play the what if game.

 

[Douchebag K]

I really hope Exum pays off for us and becomes the player this organization envisioned him to be, but there is a part of me that wonders what position would we be in now, had we selected someone else with that high pick ... again we can always play the what if game.

selected who ?? Slim pickings in that draft

 

[416Klawzz]

selected who ?? Slim pickings in that draft

There were a few good players there ... would be interesting to see how Saric, Gary Harris, Lavine would have contributed here.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

You mean the Shelvin Mack who shot 30% from 3pt last year ?? k

Opposed to Exum’s 29.5%? Yes.


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[416Klawzz]

Opposed to Exum’s 29.5%? Yes.


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Ouch!

 

[Douchebag K]

So Shelvin's 30 % 3pt SPREAD THE FLOOR better then Exum's 29.5 % lol k

 

[MilesDeep]

Mack sucked, and there isn't any proper justification as to why he played while Exum didn't. Mitchell bordered on bad his first few games and yet the leash was long. So it should have been with Burks and Exum. But then, I thought Exum played too much his rookie year when he was clearly too scared (hesitant) to do anything offensively other than jack up threes. Exum had partially outgrown this by the time Mack was here and was inexplicably playing ahead of him.