Favors got extended

[addictionary]

Thanks for the link. I noticed that more than half of those highlights he was fouled. Hopefully he gets more respect from the refs this year.

Not a chance.

 

[addictionary]

We need to celebrate with some highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nohP4YKuQko

Hahha! The part when he blocks Greg Smith's (Hou) dunk, you see his teammate jumping from the bench to celebrate the dunk only to cancel the jump in the air. Cracks me up every time.

 

[spycam1]

@ESPNSteinLine: Jazz won't go any farther publicly than acknowledging talks ongoing but I'm told deal -- if completed -- will be richer than Favors' deal

Love Hayward but..........

 

[Litany]

Was going to make a separate thread for this because I love Zach Lowe, but I figure it's fine here.

https://www.grantland.com/blog/the-...-derrick-favorss-extension-means-for-the-jazz

One gem:

"He's also already one of the 10 or so best two-way rebounders in the league. He's almost charmingly diligent on the defensive glass, always glancing around to find a body to box out, instead of lazily boxing out air."

 

[fishonjazz]

We need to celebrate with some highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nohP4YKuQko

Lol at Dunleavy trying to take it at favors (5:12 mark)

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Anyone notice how much Richard Jefferson and Andres Biedrins are making this year?

Answer: $11 mil and $9 mil, respectively.

 

[b_line]

Which player would you rather have:

Gasol is reigning DPOY, and apparently (according to ESPN) a top ten player in the league.

2012-2013 Per 36 minutes stats
Gasol: 14.2 ppg, 8.5 RPG, 1.8 BPG, 2 TO/game, and .494 FG%
Favors: 14.6 PPG, 11.0 RPG, 2.0 BPG, 2.6 TO/game, and .482 FG%

How is it that we consider Marc Gasol so great a basketball player, yet a guy with really similar numbers gets berated for having no offensive moves? The one big difference I see in their numbers from last year is in assists. Favors averaged 1.5 assists, and Gasol averaged 4 assists. That is elite level passing from a big man. If Favors can learn to pass, will he be considered a top ten player? That is probably not his game, but he will definitely be a better shot blocker than Gasol, and is already heads and shoulders above Gasol in rebounding.

It will be interesting to see if the Jazz frontcourt of Favors and Kanter can be as productive as Gasol and Randolph. It looks like Favors will at least approach the level of productivity that Gasol has seen.

 

[green]

Which player would you rather have:

Gasol is reigning DPOY, and apparently (according to ESPN) a top ten player in the league.

2012-2013 Per 36 minutes stats
Gasol: 14.2 ppg, 8.5 RPG, 1.8 BPG, 2 TO/game, and .494 FG%
Favors: 14.6 PPG, 11.0 RPG, 2.0 BPG, 2.6 TO/game, and .482 FG%

How is it that we consider Marc Gasol so great a basketball player, yet a guy with really similar numbers gets berated for having no offensive moves? The one big difference I see in their numbers from last year is in assists. Favors averaged 1.5 assists, and Gasol averaged 4 assists. That is elite level passing from a big man. If Favors can learn to pass, will he be considered a top ten player? That is probably not his game, but he will definitely be a better shot blocker than Gasol, and is already heads and shoulders above Gasol in rebounding.

It will be interesting to see if the Jazz frontcourt of Favors and Kanter can be as productive as Gasol and Randolph. It looks like Favors will at least approach the level of productivity that Gasol has seen.

Derrick is younger, cheaper with a higher upside. Those assists numbers are unreal. I think Favors is kind of who he will forever be. I think his offense can improve IF he has a good PG to run the P&R with, but not by much.

 

[b_line]

Derrick is younger, cheaper with a higher upside. Those assists numbers are unreal. I think Favors is kind of who he will forever be. I think his offense can improve IF he has a good PG to run the P&R with, but not by much.

I tend to agree with you that he is who he will be. I think he will improve marginally offensively, probably to the point where he can't be left alone.

Gasol's assists are out of this world. I think that was what Malone was averaging when he had been in the league for ever. He is probably as good a passer for a big man as Malone was. Maybe Favors could improve, but I doubt his passing would ever be that good.

I was surprised to see that he is not all that different in ppg and way better than Gasol at rebounding though.

If Gasol is considered a superstar in today's league, then maybe we are underselling Favors...

 

[GVC]

If Gasol is considered a superstar in today's league, then maybe we are underselling Favors...

You have to consider where the two get their shots. Gasol not only produced at a very high level in post-ups and isos (0.96 PPP and 0.86 PPP, respectively), he got a lot of his offense out of these situations (43.7% of his possessions that ended in shots, shooting fouls or turnovers). Keep in mind that these are, on average, low PPP possessions (along with pick and roll ball handler...together averaging about 0.8 PPP), although the creation of other halfcourt shot types (~1 PPP) are dependent on plays initiated through isos, pick and rolls and post-ups (between 38 and 49% of team's halfcourt terminal possessions came out of isos, pick and roll ball handlers and post ups). Gasol was also very effective in pick and rolls (1.19 PPP, 20% of his possessions). Compound his individual brilliance scoring on-ball with his passing, and you have an elite offensive player.

Favors got much more of his offense off-ball, in transition and via offensive rebounds (Gasol's O-boards are presumably nerfed by ZBo...Memphis was second in the league in offensive rebounding percentage). Those opportunities are converted by a lot of players at a high rate and come out of lower leverage situations, and thus add far less value to overall team offense.

Despite these advantages, Favors' 0.9 PPP total falls far short of Gasol's 0.97 PPP (without any consideration of the value Gasol adds to others through the type of possessions he uses and the assists he racks up).

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

You have to consider where the two get their shots. Gasol not only produced at a very high level in post-ups and isos (0.96 PPP and 0.86 PPP, respectively), he got a lot of his offense out of these situations (43.7% of his possessions that ended in shots, shooting fouls or turnovers). Keep in mind that these are, on average, low PPP possessions (along with pick and roll ball handler...together averaging about 0.8 PPP), although the creation of other halfcourt shot types (~1 PPP) are dependent on plays initiated through isos, pick and rolls and post-ups (between 38 and 49% of team's halfcourt terminal possessions came out of isos, pick and roll ball handlers and post ups). Gasol was also very effective in pick and rolls (1.19 PPP, 20% of his possessions). Compound his individual brilliance scoring on-ball with his passing, and you have an elite offensive player.

Favors got much more of his offense off-ball, in transition and via offensive rebounds (Gasol's O-boards are presumably nerfed by ZBo...Memphis was second in the league in offensive rebounding percentage). Those opportunities are converted by a lot of players at a high rate, come out of lower leverage situations, and thus add far less value to overall team offense.

Despite these advantages, Favors' 0.9 PPP total falls far short of Gasol's 0.97 PPP (without any consideration of the value Gasol adds to others through the type of possessions he uses and the assists he racks up).

Booyah.

 

[b_line]

You have to consider where the two get their shots. Gasol not only produced at a very high level in post-ups and isos (0.96 PPP and 0.86 PPP, respectively), he got a lot of his offense out of these situations (43.7% of his possessions that ended in shots, shooting fouls or turnovers). Keep in mind that these are, on average, low PPP possessions (along with pick and roll ball handler...together averaging about 0.8 PPP), although the creation of other halfcourt shot types (~1 PPP) are dependent on plays initiated through isos, pick and rolls and post-ups (between 38 and 49% of team's halfcourt terminal possessions came out of isos, pick and roll ball handlers and post ups). Gasol was also very effective in pick and rolls (1.19 PPP, 20% of his possessions). Compound his individual brilliance scoring on-ball with his passing, and you have an elite offensive player.

Favors got much more of his offense off-ball, in transition and via offensive rebounds (Gasol's O-boards are presumably nerfed by ZBo...Memphis was second in the league in offensive rebounding percentage). Those opportunities are converted by a lot of players at a high rate and come out of lower leverage situations, and thus add far less value to overall team offense.

Despite these advantages, Favors' 0.9 PPP total falls far short of Gasol's 0.97 PPP (without any consideration of the value Gasol adds to others through the type of possessions he uses and the assists he racks up).

Dang, favors PPP is turrible. That makes sense about gasols rebounding being impacted by z Bo. Seems like kanter will get less rebounds this year because of favors gobbling them up.

So in order for favors to improve he needs to be better at pick and roll situations and better man defense?

 

[fishonjazz]

You have to consider where the two get their shots. Gasol not only produced at a very high level in post-ups and isos (0.96 PPP and 0.86 PPP, respectively), he got a lot of his offense out of these situations (43.7% of his possessions that ended in shots, shooting fouls or turnovers). Keep in mind that these are, on average, low PPP possessions (along with pick and roll ball handler...together averaging about 0.8 PPP), although the creation of other halfcourt shot types (~1 PPP) are dependent on plays initiated through isos, pick and rolls and post-ups (between 38 and 49% of team's halfcourt terminal possessions came out of isos, pick and roll ball handlers and post ups). Gasol was also very effective in pick and rolls (1.19 PPP, 20% of his possessions). Compound his individual brilliance scoring on-ball with his passing, and you have an elite offensive player.

Favors got much more of his offense off-ball, in transition and via offensive rebounds (Gasol's O-boards are presumably nerfed by ZBo...Memphis was second in the league in offensive rebounding percentage). Those opportunities are converted by a lot of players at a high rate and come out of lower leverage situations, and thus add far less value to overall team offense.

Despite these advantages, Favors' 0.9 PPP total falls far short of Gasol's 0.97 PPP (without any consideration of the value Gasol adds to others through the type of possessions he uses and the assists he racks up).

You also must consider that gasol plays on a very good team.

If favors averages 14 pts, 12 boards, 2 blocks on a contender..... then he will get lots of recognition.
If he puts up the same numbers for a bottom feeder then no one will care

 

[NUMBERICA]

You also must consider that gasol plays on a very good team.

If favors averages 14 pts, 12 boards, 2 blocks on a contender..... then he will get lots of recognition.
If he puts up the same numbers for a bottom feeder then no one will care

That, and he's not really even close to as good as Gasol. But maybe I overrate being a complete player versus half of one.

 

[BTP]

https://www.hoopsworld.com/bball-breakdown-marc-gasol-vs-dwight-howard

I guess some one you already have seen that video. But that's for everyone who thinks that Marc Gasol is bad. Look where his production comes from. You can even see where Dwight's production is the strongest if you're interested in that as well.

 

[♪alt13]

That's not what I'M talking about. Shots challenged by Sanders close to the basket have the lowest ratio to result in points Favors is not in the same category yet.
I feel the Jazz got kinda raped by the early extension. Early extension means financial security for the player. The Jazz didn't get a discount here. 3rd year extensions are either financial trade offs or it's a franchise player who you want to stay happy at any cost.
But since Favors views himself as PF I compare him to Taj Gibson. Taj is also a better defender at this point. Derrick is younger with more upside. Offensively they are similar in efficiency IMO at this point. Taj got 4 yrs $33M. If I factor in expected development for Favors I'd say an early extension at $42M would have been a fair price. Now he has the benjamins incoming and can pull a Tyrus Thomas or get hurt. That's why I think that's a horrible contract. Didn't the Jazz hire a former agent to be assistant GM?

It's a gamble, it always is. It all depends on whether or not you believe he will become that good of a player. I don't think in the next four yrs Favors will fall to any less than a 10 mill/yr guy and he may be come a 14-15 mil/yr guy. I think it was a fair and probably a good bet. In the next three years we have 6 or 7 first round picks(can't remember help me out) so signing him at this level means we should still be able to get a starting/ sixth man caliber guy via free agency and hopefully one or two of those picks is solid. I'm pretty happy with this deal.

I think pkm is probably right and it is front loaded so if he doesn't become the guy we want him to it should be easy to get a good trade for him.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Surprised enough to bet on it?

I can't think of a single reason for either the Jazz or Favors to take a descending contract outside the incentive clause which would be progressive. Getting his money up front is beneficial for him, and it's beneficial for the Jazz with their current salary structure.

Bet?

Late to the party, but I don't see how the numbers could descend. Stein reporting total number is $47.7M and change. At $49M a base of $11 with standard 7.5% raises adds to essentially $49M. With the report of 47.7, a base salary in the 11 range with a 5% increase nets in the 47.7 range. 10.5 base with 7.5% ends up just shy of 47.


I guess it's possible with a 13M base with 7.25% DECREASE in salary, but the final year is 10.33, and I don't see Derrick doing that.

 

[GVC]

I guess it's possible with a 13M base with 7.25% DECREASE in salary, but the final year is 10.33, and I don't see Derrick doing that.

Why not?

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

Late to the party, but I don't see how the numbers could descend. Stein reporting total number is $47.7M and change. At $49M a base of $11 with standard 7.5% raises adds to essentially $49M. With the report of 47.7, a base salary in the 11 range with a 5% increase nets in the 47.7 range. 10.5 base with 7.5% ends up just shy of 47.


I guess it's possible with a 13M base with 7.25% DECREASE in salary, but the final year is 10.33, and I don't see Derrick doing that.

Why not?

Because getting the money sooner would be a smart financial decision, and Favs doesn't like those. Nor does he like helping his team.

Case closed.

 

[GVC]

Because getting the money sooner would be a smart financial decision, and Favs doesn't like those. Nor does he like helping his team.

Case closed.

To be fair, a frontloaded deal does limit the starting salary on an extension (if Favors wants to bypass free agency), as the max salary on the first year of an extension is 107.5% of the last year on the existing contract. Assuming a total contract value $47.7mm, the last year salary on a fully backloaded deal (that is, with 7.5% raises) is $13.13mm; the last year salary on a fully frontloaded deal (7.5% decreases) is $10.41mm. The maximum first year salary in an extension of the backloaded contract is $14.1mm; the maximum first year salary in an extension of the frontloaded contract is $11.2mm. Not a negligible difference (this is almost certainly what explains the dearth of frontloaded longterm deals).

This problem doesn't extend to free agency however, as Favors' max starting salary will be (slightly less than) 30% of the cap, regardless of how his rookie contract extension is structured.