Favs Deal Must Be Moved

[KqWIN]

I might be confused at what you are saying here, but Favors was pretty solid this year. Not worth his contract, for sure, but he had a net rating of +2.6, and mostly played against starters.

Yeah...and look at the Net Rating with him on the bench. Favors didn't play against full bench units in his stints, but he also didn't play with full bench units on his team. He played with a lot of good players. We had a positive rating in spite of him, not because of him.

There's a million guys who can score efficiently around the basket these days. At the end of Favs first stint here, he was doing it at a high volume but that is no more. Defensively, he's horrible at the rim and doesn't cover space with his feet either. Quin's system compounded this issue, but Favors is nothing defensively around the basket. It was a layup line whenever he was on the court, especially during the playoffs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Favors is not reliable to play big minutes. If Nurk is out, do you really want him playing more than 15 minutes anyways? I also don't think Favors is much better than the minimum options. If he was a FA this year I don't think he would get much more than the minimum and certainly not $10M a year. He looked completely toast defensively and was bad in every situation.

DJJ could be considered an exchange of bad goods, but to me Favors is a much more obvious negative and does not fit bill for Portland. His health is completely unreliable and even when he's playing he was not good.

I think he'd get the somewhere between the BAE and taxpayer MLE. He was not as bad as you are making him out to be. Similarly DJJ won't get full MLE after the season he had and he was benched in the playoffs. Its absolutely an exchange of bad goods. They might get a guy at the minimum but they are one of the weaker West teams when it comes to centers. Nurk is also grumbling about a new contract... they need some stability. Not sure they can afford to gamble on a guy like Dedmon or Biyombo at the minimum with Dame wanting to see progress.

I don't think Favs trade value is as low as some might... he's definitely a negative. Had a bad series against the Clips but had some good moments against the Grizz.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Yeah...and look at the Net Rating with him on the bench. Favors didn't play against full bench units in his stints, but he also didn't play with full bench units on his team. He played with a lot of good players. We had a positive rating in spite of him, not because of him.

There's a million guys who can score efficiently around the basket these days. At the end of Favs first stint here, he was doing it at a high volume but that is no more. Defensively, he's horrible at the rim and doesn't cover space with his feet either. Quin's system compounded this issue, but Favors is nothing defensively around the basket. It was a layup line whenever he was on the court, especially during the playoffs.

I don't agree with the in spite of him comments, but mostly agree with everything else. The Net Rating with him on the bench was due to Gobert being amazing and the Conley/Gobert vs bench units giving us huge advantages each game. Favors being solid in his minutes allowed for that.
He had too many stretches where he looked old and slow. I thought he started the playoffs looking good, but playing every other day wore him down too much, which is kind of unacceptable when you are only playing 15 min per game.
He's definitely over paid, and if his contract can net us something better I'm all for it. I don't think we are as good of a team next year if we move his contract and don't have a solid backup in his place.

 

[LoPo]

I think he'd get the somewhere between the BAE and taxpayer MLE. He was not as bad as you are making him out to be. Similarly DJJ won't get full MLE after the season he had and he was benched in the playoffs. Its absolutely an exchange of bad goods. They might get a guy at the minimum but they are one of the weaker West teams when it comes to centers. Nurk is also grumbling about a new contract... they need some stability. Not sure they can afford to gamble on a guy like Dedmon or Biyombo at the minimum with Dame wanting to see progress.

I don't think Favs trade value is as low as some might... he's definitely a negative. Had a bad series against the Clips but had some good moments against the Grizz.

I think he's negative by himself. For the right player, I don't know if he's negative. Like for Indiana - if they lose Turner, Favors might be much more helpful for them than expiring Lamb. I'm also sure there's a team out there with a $12 or so player who Favors could save them a couple million.

I'm very interested to see the Favors market. I don't think we can just dump him and an asset just to save money. What signal does that send Don and Rudy?

 

[KqWIN]

I think he'd get the somewhere between the BAE and taxpayer MLE. He was not as bad as you are making him out to be. Similarly DJJ won't get full MLE after the season he had and he was benched in the playoffs. Its absolutely an exchange of bad goods. They might get a guy at the minimum but they are one of the weaker West teams when it comes to centers. Nurk is also grumbling about a new contract... they need some stability. Not sure they can afford to gamble on a guy like Dedmon or Biyombo at the minimum with Dame wanting to see progress.

I don't think Favs trade value is as low as some might... he's definitely a negative. Had a bad series against the Clips but had some good moments against the Grizz.

I will admit that I'm lower on Favors than most. But to me DJJ is more or less the same as he was when he signed his contract. He's still young, still has potential, and still has the flaws that got him benched. All of the reasons why he got that contract are still more or less there. A year later it does feel like his potential is getting too costly, especially for a team in a bind like POR, but ultimately I don't think the outlook for DJJ is much different than it was a year ago. If we want to try getting a stretch 5 and playing him in lineups with DJJ, I don't know why POR doesn't want to do the same thing.

OTOH, I think Favors stock has dropped considerably further. He looked completely cooked physically and was awful at what was supposed to be his biggest positive (defense). I do agree that POR needs some consistency and reliability from the C position, but Favors is absolutely not that player because of his health and obvious shortcomings that he displayed when he was playing last year.

I don't feel great about penciling in DJJ as a rotation player, but at least he has upside. I also don't feel great about penciling Favors in as a rotation player, but he plays a position that is significantly easier to address with cheaper options and has no upside.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I will admit that I'm lower on Favors than most. But to me DJJ is more or less the same as he was when he signed his contract. He's still young, still has potential, and still has the flaws that got him benched. All of the reasons why he got that contract are still more or less there. A year later it does feel like his potential is getting too costly, especially for a team in a bind like POR, but ultimately I don't think the outlook for DJJ is much different than it was a year ago. If we want to try getting a stretch 5 and playing him in lineups with DJJ, I don't know why POR doesn't want to do the same thing.

OTOH, I think Favors stock has dropped considerably further. He looked completely cooked physically and was awful at what was supposed to be his biggest positive (defense). I do agree that POR needs some consistency and reliability from the C position, but Favors is absolutely not that player because of his health and obvious shortcomings that he displayed when he was playing last year.

I don't feel great about penciling in DJJ as a rotation player, but at least he has upside. I also don't feel great about penciling Favors in as a rotation player, but he plays a position that is significantly easier to address with cheaper options and has no upside.

Maybe... potential is a deteriorating asset... even if you stay the same... a year goes by and that asset loses some value. I think the idea in DJJ getting the full MLE was him building on his last year in Miami and he was maybe a tad worse. I get the argument.

I think the deal definitely Favors us. I think if Derrick's contract was one year shorter it'd be dead even. Favs slowed as the season went on but he still rebounded and blocked shots at a high level. Advanced stats never love any Rudy replacement. I also think the lockerroom stuff with Favs is a big factor in helping out a team... so I think his good reputation would add a bit to his value... maybe moreso for a team like Sacramento but Porty has a new coach.

If you think Favs is trash or Ed Davis levels of washed... then no trade seems fair unless we give up draft capital. I still think he's a good backup center. You can find those for the minimum but it's a bit of a dice roll. They might find something better to do with DJJ expiring deal, but I do think they'd have some interest... might need to add a second or two... because I do see your point as well. I am hoping to get like 120% of Favs eroded value if we did a deal... hoping we don't have to sell off assets to just throw him into someone's space. Robin Lopez got like $7M on the open market last year.. Plumlee did alright too... I guess I'm hoping some GMs still want to pay for bigs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think he's negative by himself. For the right player, I don't know if he's negative. Like for Indiana - if they lose Turner, Favors might be much more helpful for them than expiring Lamb. I'm also sure there's a team out there with a $12 or so player who Favors could save them a couple million.

I'm very interested to see the Favors market. I don't think we can just dump him and an asset just to save money. What signal does that send Don and Rudy?

I'd worry more about what it says to Mike in FA if we did it prior to the draft. It kinda looks bad "well we have to sell this guy who the locker room loves so greedy *** Mike can get his". Mike may not like that look from fans.

It was just such an overpay from the start... just some silly ****.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I will admit that I'm lower on Favors than most. But to me DJJ is more or less the same as he was when he signed his contract. He's still young, still has potential, and still has the flaws that got him benched. All of the reasons why he got that contract are still more or less there. A year later it does feel like his potential is getting too costly, especially for a team in a bind like POR, but ultimately I don't think the outlook for DJJ is much different than it was a year ago. If we want to try getting a stretch 5 and playing him in lineups with DJJ, I don't know why POR doesn't want to do the same thing.

OTOH, I think Favors stock has dropped considerably further. He looked completely cooked physically and was awful at what was supposed to be his biggest positive (defense). I do agree that POR needs some consistency and reliability from the C position, but Favors is absolutely not that player because of his health and obvious shortcomings that he displayed when he was playing last year.

I don't feel great about penciling in DJJ as a rotation player, but at least he has upside. I also don't feel great about penciling Favors in as a rotation player, but he plays a position that is significantly easier to address with cheaper options and has no upside.

BTW I do appreciate the thoughtful and reasoned way you disagree/discuss things.

 

[KqWIN]

Maybe... potential is a deteriorating asset... even if you stay the same... a year goes by and that asset loses some value. I think the idea in DJJ getting the full MLE was him building on his last year in Miami and he was maybe a tad worse. I get the argument.

I think the deal definitely Favors us. I think if Derrick's contract was one year shorter it'd be dead even. Favs slowed as the season went on but he still rebounded and blocked shots at a high level. Advanced stats never love any Rudy replacement. I also think the lockerroom stuff with Favs is a big factor in helping out a team... so I think his good reputation would add a bit to his value... maybe moreso for a team like Sacramento but Porty has a new coach.

If you think Favs is trash or Ed Davis levels of washed... then no trade seems fair unless we give up draft capital. I still think he's a good backup center. You can find those for the minimum but it's a bit of a dice roll. They might find something better to do with DJJ expiring deal, but I do think they'd have some interest... might need to add a second or two... because I do see your point as well. I am hoping to get like 120% of Favs eroded value if we did a deal... hoping we don't have to sell off assets to just throw him into someone's space. Robin Lopez got like $7M on the open market last year.. Plumlee did alright too... I guess I'm hoping some GMs still want to pay for bigs.

I don't think Favs is Ed Davis levels of washed, but I am really low on him. In a weird way, I wonder if his health worked against him in the sense that he never got an extended period of rest. But that's a big part of the problem with Favors. His play is highly dependent on his physical condition and he looks cooked. At 30 years old I don't have hope that his physical form is coming back.

The good thing in terms of a Favors trade is that it only takes one team. If you asked me about a lot of the recent C contracts given out I'd probably say it was too much, so it's clear that there are teams that see it differently than me. I just think that when it comes to backup C's teams want reliability, and Favors is not reliable from a health or play standpoint. The layup lines were not a good look for him defensively.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't think Favs is Ed Davis levels of washed, but I am really low on him. In a weird way, I wonder if his health worked against him in the sense that he never got an extended period of rest. But that's a big part of the problem with Favors. His play is highly dependent on his physical condition and he looks cooked. At 30 years old I don't have hope that his physical form is coming back.

The good thing in terms of a Favors trade is that it only takes one team. If you asked me about a lot of the recent C contracts given out I'd probably say it was too much, so it's clear that there are teams that see it differently than me. I just think that when it comes to backup C's teams want reliability, and Favors is not reliable from a health or play standpoint. The layup lines were not a good look for him defensively.

I think 50% of being a good GM is making sure you know which GMs are going to make the dumb short sighted move and being great friends with them.

(I'm kidding... kind of)

 

[LoPo]

I think 50% of being a good GM is making sure you know which GMs are going to make the dumb short sighted move and being great friends with them.

(I'm kidding... kind of)

Like NY stalking us last year for Ed Davis and picks and might be stalking this year for Favors and picks?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Like NY stalking us last year for Ed Davis and picks and might be stalking this year for Favors and picks?

Meh... that was okay... that's just DL getting his work done early so he can turn in after his shows.

I'm talking like Presti and Morey stuff (they literally duped each other at different times). Or like when Vlade took over the Kings... guy literally did not know the rules.

 

[KqWIN]

I think 50% of being a good GM is making sure you know which GMs are going to make the dumb short sighted move and being great friends with them.

(I'm kidding... kind of)

This is why I think NOP is the place to attack. David Griffin is part of the "great hire" media darlings like the Jazz are so we've got to have a relationship there. They have picks, good youngish players who might want out, and are under a ton of pressure. I can smell it. They are about to implode.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is why I think NOP is the place to attack. David Griffin is part of the "great hire" media darlings like the Jazz are so we've got to have a relationship there. They have picks, good youngish players who might want out, and are under a ton of pressure. I can smell it. They are about to implode.

All the news out of there has been weird too... Earlier this week I said they should be on our "call these guys every day" list. You just keep checking in to see how its going.

 

[LoPo]

This is why I think NOP is the place to attack. David Griffin is part of the "great hire" media darlings like the Jazz are so we've got to have a relationship there. They have picks, good youngish players who might want out, and are under a ton of pressure. I can smell it. They are about to implode.

A bad summer this year leads to a summer of Zion discontent next year.

 

[KqWIN]

A bad summer this year leads to a summer of Zion discontent next year.

It's looking like Zion is already discontent and a stand pat summer is not in the cards. A team that is desperate to make a move is the team you work to exploit.

 

[LoPo]

It's looking like Zion is already discontent and a stand pat summer is not in the cards. A team that is desperate to make a move is the team you work to exploit.

Yep.

Dame Lillard to New Orleans for Brandon Ingram, a boatload of picks and maybe a couple young players too.

I think this will happen. Dame wants NY, but they don't have the assets. He wants Philly, but does Portland want Simmons? And they don't have great assets either.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Here is another deal inspired by @Saint Cy of JFC 's suggestion of Chicago.

Favs & #30 for Aminu & #38 - This will low key save Ryan some money because of the difference in salary between a first and a second round pick. We can also sell this as believing in Udoka as the backup 5. We can also sell this when we don't use the taxpayer MLE because we brought Aminu in to fill the need we have for perimeter defense... we can't sign someone to the taxpayer MLE and block this guy... right? They can then add a vet minimum guy or two and the media can state how smart they are but we will all know they did a minimal changeup but saved some cash.

 

[Miggs]

Here is another deal inspired by @Saint Cy of JFC 's suggestion of Chicago.

Favs & #30 for Aminu & #38 - This will low key save Ryan some money because of the difference in salary between a first and a second round pick. We can also sell this as believing in Udoka as the backup 5. We can also sell this when we don't use the taxpayer MLE because we brought Aminu in to fill the need we have for perimeter defense... we can't sign someone to the taxpayer MLE and block this guy... right? They can then add a vet minimum guy or two and the media can state how smart they are but we will all know they did a minimal changeup but saved some cash.

I don’t think we need to swap picks. Favors has more value than Aminu at this point.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don’t think we need to swap picks. Favors has more value than Aminu at this point.

I'm not so sure. Aminu is expiring and Favs has two more years left on his deal. They may not even be interested if the plan is to bring Theis back.