Following potential 2014 draftees
- Thread starter Dr. Jones
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Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
The new CHAMPION!
Chargers Jazz Angels
Well-Known Member
Jay Bilas: I really like Cleanthony Early of Wichita State. I heard it said that Early is the type of player the Spurs would grab up, and he would thrive there. I tend to agree with that. Early may not be an NBA superstar, but he can be a valuable piece to a really good NBA team. Early is long, athletic and he can stretch the floor to NBA range, although his consistency shooting it is an issue. He is also a terrific rebounder, especially on the offensive end. He is not the same player, but he could have the kind of impact that Kawhi Leonard has had.
sounds like a Lindsay pick
sounds like a Lindsay pick
Of course others also have plenty risks attached. But with Jabari you know he'll find a way to score because he's so versatile on offense. How much extra work it will be on defense for everyone else is a different chapter!
The thing with Vonleh for a lot of fans is that he didn't get a lot of touches in their offense, regularly found himself in unnecessary foul trouble and that leads to different conclusions for his upside and the probability that he'll every reach that projection!
I can live with a lot of guys.
My personal preference would be:
Embiid
Wiggins
Exum
Parker
Vonleh
After that I have
Saric
Randle
with major doubts that they can be difference makers on offense long term.
If it's Gordon or Smart who's being drafted I'd prefer the FO to simply trade everyone away and go full Philly. Because I can't see the Jazz get an elite iso scorer via trade/free agency or within their ranks.
And without that you're not going to last in the playoffs. There's 50 years of evidence on tape for that. You need playmakers, guys who can take over games.
Guys who play that good that the refs give them a star bonus.
With Trey, Alec, Gordon, Enes and Derrick I simply don't see that.
With Embiid you potentially can play 4 around 1.
With Wiggins you can have Indiana mountain edition in 4 years.
With Parker you'll play a lot of small ball and play a transition style whenever it's suitable.
With Exum you utilize your multiple ballhandlers and play some aggressive half court attack with multiple ballhandlers and shooters which will pressure defenses into giving up good looks. So a read and react kind of game centered around pick and roll and rotations
With Vonleh it'll be a lot of Pick and Pop and a lot of unusual cross screens for bigs by smalls. Also I think Vonleh has the best isolation potential of the guys because his handles are tight.
That obviously requires all of these guys to pan out offensively.
Maybe I'm uncreative but I fail to see in which part of the game the Jazz can become VERY VERY TERRIFIC AND AWESOME when you have Gordon or Smart on board.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Solid post, BTP.
I'm not sold on Exum, simply because most of what we know is based on 1 game and the opinion of various sportswriters. Also have to believe he's been less than impressive based on Lindsey stating there's a 3-player top-tier, not 4. I'm against selling the farm to move up. If the Jazz could use the #5 and #23, I'd do it. Or perhaps just one quality player. For example, Favors (or Kanter) + the #5 for Embiid. Throw in the #23 if really necessary, but NOT another starter. Same goes for moving up for Wiggins or Parker.
But I truly believe Vonleh is going to be an all-star. Jazz are GUARANTEED no worse than Exum or Vonleh, plus they'd get to keep all their other players and picks. I know this is a worn phrase, but I still don't believe we really know what we have yet. The coaching was so bad, players were misused early on (Kanter to the bench, Burks not getting consistent minutes). And by the time that was reversed a bit, the effort and attitude from the players wasn't there anymore. Ty had lost the team and they were just playing out the season.
I'm not sold on Exum, simply because most of what we know is based on 1 game and the opinion of various sportswriters. Also have to believe he's been less than impressive based on Lindsey stating there's a 3-player top-tier, not 4. I'm against selling the farm to move up. If the Jazz could use the #5 and #23, I'd do it. Or perhaps just one quality player. For example, Favors (or Kanter) + the #5 for Embiid. Throw in the #23 if really necessary, but NOT another starter. Same goes for moving up for Wiggins or Parker.
But I truly believe Vonleh is going to be an all-star. Jazz are GUARANTEED no worse than Exum or Vonleh, plus they'd get to keep all their other players and picks. I know this is a worn phrase, but I still don't believe we really know what we have yet. The coaching was so bad, players were misused early on (Kanter to the bench, Burks not getting consistent minutes). And by the time that was reversed a bit, the effort and attitude from the players wasn't there anymore. Ty had lost the team and they were just playing out the season.
I would rather have McBuckets than Vonleh, tbh.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Oh, my!
I am completely convinced that Lindsey really wants Exum and is throwing out comments to the media to help his cause (slightly increasing the chance a top 4 talent drops to us at #5) the same way agents are posturing to try to get the right player onto the right team. That's just part of his job. There is no advantage to be 100% forthcoming.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
New strategy:
After Milwaukee refuses all reasonable offers to trade the #2 for #5, we draft Vonleh and then get Nick Wiggins in the second round. Andrew refuses to sign a contract with the Bucks and demands a trade. We then give them Vonleh and next year's pick with top-3 protection.
After Milwaukee refuses all reasonable offers to trade the #2 for #5, we draft Vonleh and then get Nick Wiggins in the second round. Andrew refuses to sign a contract with the Bucks and demands a trade. We then give them Vonleh and next year's pick with top-3 protection.
MVP
Well-Known Member
.Assist/Turnover ratio for Tweeners
See a pattern?:
https://twitter.com/VJL_bball/status/474635360971284481/photo/1
Vashro has previously argued that that A/TO ratio is one of the key separators between tweeners that end up successfully playing the 3 and those that don't.
And just to head off any questions that might arise:
Randle 0.56
Vonleh 0.28
Saric 0.90 (though this might be a bit low due to differing Euro assist standards)
McDermott 0.89 (but closer to 0.50 when he was the age of most of the other draftees)
MKG 0.86
Gerald Wallace 0.64
Shawn Marion 0.90
Scottie Pippen 0.50 (first, sophomore, year with significant minutes), 1.14 (senior)
See a pattern?:
https://twitter.com/VJL_bball/status/474635360971284481/photo/1
Vashro has previously argued that that A/TO ratio is one of the key separators between tweeners that end up successfully playing the 3 and those that don't.
And just to head off any questions that might arise:
Randle 0.56
Vonleh 0.28
Saric 0.90 (though this might be a bit low due to differing Euro assist standards)
McDermott 0.89 (but closer to 0.50 when he was the age of most of the other draftees)
MKG 0.86
Gerald Wallace 0.64
Shawn Marion 0.90
Scottie Pippen 0.50 (first, sophomore, year with significant minutes), 1.14 (senior)
spycam1
Well-Known Member
He brings the ball too low, turns his body sometimes, doesn't always land where he takes off...
These things are fixable. His shot isn't broken like MKG or Brewer. But yes, he has a lot of work to do. If his shot was better, he'd be consensus top 5, IMO.
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
with the left hand.
a shorter enes kanter???
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
Maybe at the end of games in trash time, other than that i think its asking for foul trouble. in his mid 20's i think hes going to look big in terms of NBA PF's
You definitely could match him up vs some of the older, slower SF's or the ones who really are just out there to shoot 3's, but I think Noah really fits the mold of a new age prototype PF, so im not crazy about moving him back out to the perimeter. when a 17 year old puts on 25lbs in a summer, i almost want to give him more than a season to see how he handles that weight.
Its definitely worth experimenting with though, if hes shooting well i think you can get away with it, the rebounding avantage with him at 3 would be crazy (especially next to Favors/Gobert/Kanter)
Actually, 0.51 (41/81). But you're right that Vashro got it wrong. He went off DX's per/40 pace adjusted which likely has some rounding errors in it. He should have used total assists divided by total turnovers.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
This league is becoming one of athletic 5's and stretch 4's. Vonleh is going to develop into a fantastic player for some team and I hope it's Utah. I don't see him playing the 3, but you never know. As spycam said, maybe he becomes a player like Odom.
I know the concern is that we already have enough bigs. We don't. Vonleh would just get Marvin's minutes from last season. IF Kanter can play effective defense, IF Favors develops his shot, IF Gobert becomes a 30 min/per defensive marvel, IF Vonleh becomes a franchise player in 2 years, then yes, Jazz will likely need to trade one of them. But the Jazz did ok with the rotation when Millsap and Jefferson were starting ahead of Kanter and Favors. It would be the same situation with Vonleh and Gobert as the subs. Worst case: let competition determine the best 3 and the best fits within the Jazz offense and defense. Hopefully all four are great and any trade would bring good assets in return.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
It's just not a reliable indicator. College offenses vary radically and may or may not showcase what a player can do. Hayward averaged 1.8 assists and 2.3 T/O his sophomore year. Better to look at game film and see if a player is taking bad/forced shots. That would indicate a selfish player.
Vonleh's is a little worrisome but he played almost exclusively in the post. Its much harder to pass out of there than on the wing.
Hayward wasn't a tweener hoping to make the jump to SF in the NBA either.