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Following potential 2015 draftees

Wesley was more explosive, a very quick jumper, and the much higher standing reach helped him finish dunks and lobs.
But I remember there was lots of interest in Johnson, this board was on its first iteration, plenty of people here wanted to move up for him.
Did KOC want to? Maybe. We had no assets at the time so that may have been a blessing in disguise.

KOC defended the Hayward pick at the time, stating that G-Time was "the best player on the court" for much of the tournament (including the game against Syracuse). My impression was Jazz had Gordon higher than Wesley, but KOC could have been posturing.
 
I think Handlotgen's really killing it on why Locke's take (thus far) on Kaminsky is short-sighted.

But Locke nevertheless does make the point that DL has done well with long-toolsy types such as Leonard and Gobert that need skill development. I think Locke adds that these guys have had the drive to work and be great. Is anybody out there like that? I'm guessing that Looney may be the closest. Not sure I'm sold on Oubre's drive (though to be honest, don't know enough about Looney's drive one way or the other, but I think his in-game motor is generally better).

I think Locke errs when he said that Leonard and Gobert are also great athletes. They're certainly very good, but it's not the vertical leaps that are most impressive; lateral ability, body control, etc. is as much or more of a factor. Again, here, I think Looney should at least be explored, but no idea if he measures up.
I would say that Portis belongs in the upside conversation. As a defensive specimen, he's more well-rounded than just about anyone that is a big and can shoot a basketball and he's a hustler on top of that. He's just a sophomore, and if the Jazz have some shooting coaching magic, could maybe help clean his form up a little (which to me is my only clear concern, but he seems to have decent touch on it).
 
I still like Turner and Portis ahead of Kaminsky. I'm afraid players will just run by Kaminsky and he won't be able to keep up defensively.

I love all of them. But when I mentioned Turner people said he has major issues laterally. Shrug. Do you know anything to dispel this?
 
I would say that Portis belongs in the upside conversation. As a defensive specimen, he's more well-rounded than just about anyone that is a big and can shoot a basketball and he's a hustler on top of that. He's just a sophomore, and if the Jazz have some shooting coaching magic, could maybe help clean his form up a little (which to me is my only clear concern, but he seems to have decent touch on it).

Yeah, almost any one of several players has something to really like. Hard to get attached to any one or two favorites.
 
I love all of them. But when I mentioned Turner people said he has major issues laterally. Shrug. Do you know anything to dispel this?

Turner is certainly not worse than kamisky laterally. Far more athletic, nice shot, upside. Sounds like a good option for me. In our spot I am looking at ( in no particular order)

Booker
turner
decker
Portis
Oubre
Looney
 
Frank's not a T-rex. Doesn't have a great wingspan, but standing reach matters too, esp. for bigs. Frank's standing reach is equal to (among others):
Andre Drummond
Steven Adams
Tiago Splitter

Is 1/2" below Derrick Favors and LaMarcus Aldridge

And is higher than:
Taj Gibson
Greg Monroe
Tristan Thompson
Myers Leonard
Festus Ezeli
Anthony Davis
Mason Plumlee
Noah Vonleh
Greg Monroe
Nene
Chris Bosh
Amare Stoudemire
Kwame Brown
Al Horford
Joachim Noah

What you are saying is he has a long torso....and short arms...t-Rex by definition. Defense isn't played straight up all the time bro.
 
Don't know if anybody's made a Kelly Oubre/Wesley Johnson comparison yet. Maybe there's something to it. Seemed to have been regarded as similarly tooled players. Very similar size (including reach -- Oubre a bit better in wingspan, Johnson in standing reach).

Despite the general narrative, Johnson was pretty good as a freshman -- not quite as good as Oubre, but probably not as far behind as many imagine. Both had questions coming out about their motor/toughness.

Actually if Johnson had been drafted #12, we'd probably think there's nothing particularly wrong with the way his career has played out.


For me it's his handles that would scare me off. He has a gifted body, but never learned to play the right way.
 
Im just going to say that I really don't know how any of these players are going to turn out and that the draft has a lot of luck to it....
 
have a draft trade proposal to bounce of you guys

toronto trades

- Terrence Ross
- Patrick Patterson

jazz trade

- trevor booker
- trey Burke
- #12 pick

both Patterson and Ross a good to decent 3 pt shooters.

exum, Beverly, cotton
burks, hood, millsap
Hayward, Ross, ingles
favors, Patterson
Gobert, pleiss
 
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Patrick Patterson? I like him but not enough to give up the lottery pick for him. Terrence Ross had a horrible season and will have to be paid next year. I don't like the trade as it is proposed and they don't have anywhere near the value we would be giving up.
 
have a draft trade proposal to bounce of you guys

toronto trades

- Terrence Ross
- Reuben Patterson

jazz trade

- trevor booker
- trey Burke
- #12 pick

both Patterson and Ross a good to decent 3 pt shooters.

exum, Beverly, cotton
burks, hood, millsap
Hayward, Ross, ingles
favors, Patterson
Gobert, pleiss
I've heard multiple times that the Jazz don't like Ross at all.
 
I think Handlotgen's really killing it on why Locke's take (thus far) on Kaminsky is short-sighted.

But Locke nevertheless does make the point that DL has done well with long-toolsy types such as Leonard and Gobert that need skill development. I think Locke adds that these guys have had the drive to work and be great. Is anybody out there like that? I'm guessing that Looney may be the closest. Not sure I'm sold on Oubre's drive (though to be honest, don't know enough about Looney's drive one way or the other, but I think his in-game motor is generally better).

I think Locke errs when he said that Leonard and Gobert are also great athletes. They're certainly very good, but it's not the vertical leaps that are most impressive; lateral ability, body control, etc. is as much or more of a factor. Again, here, I think Looney should at least be explored, but no idea if he measures up.

Good post.

I've been very pro Looney.
 
have a draft trade proposal to bounce of you guys

toronto trades

- Terrence Ross
- Reuben Patterson

jazz trade

- trevor booker
- trey Burke
- #12 pick

both Patterson and Ross a good to decent 3 pt shooters.

exum, Beverly, cotton
burks, hood, millsap
Hayward, Ross, ingles
favors, Patterson
Gobert, pleiss

no
 
exum, Beverly, cotton
burks, hood, millsap
Hayward, Ross, ingles
favors, Patterson
Gobert, pleiss

A couple of days ago Pleiss was reported to be moving to a German team. Some kind of agreement with FC Barcelona that they would move on from him but still pay part of his salary. No idea if this affects Jazz's relationship with him.
 
****ty Smurf is so weak. Runs to negs when he gets placed. Love that I can get into you Freakazoid. Good vibes coming back to you, you miserable wretch.

Lol...MY FIRST SIG!!! looks like I'm smurfin' on up in the world.:p Guess I'll have to re-think my opinion of mr. freakazoid, as we now have something in common. Also, if you are the one getting the best of me, how come I'm not screaming at you in my sig:confused: Anyway, have a smurfy day!
smurf.gif
 
I wonder how instructive the career of Meyers Leonard might be in helping us think about Frank Kaminsky. They're quite different players, to be sure: Leonard looks more the part of an athletic center; Kaminsky is more skilled at dribbling, assists and perhaps posting up, and probably has a better feel for the game.

But there are some similarities. Both were nothing to speak of as freshman centers in the Big 10. They could barely get off their respective benches. Both made great leaps (per-40 minutes as sophomores). The biggest difference was that Leonard got substantially more minutes as a sophomore, though their overall effectiveness per minute played looked fairly similar.

Then Kaminsky really blossomed as a junior and blew up as a senior. Leonard on the other hand was drafted (11th). He spent two years looking quite overwhelmed, like perhaps he had little future in the league. But this year, despite several DNPs and playing fewer minutes per game (15) than he did as a rookie, he's emerged as a very intriguing player for the future. He shot 51% from the field, including 42% from 3 (45% of his shots were 3s), and 91% from the line (though he almost never got to the line). According to B-Reference, his offensive rating was 117 and defensive was 102. He's rocketed up to a RPM rank of 29th among centers (from being in the slot below Enes Kanter a year ago -- at #63).

All this despite not really having a game that features the athletic tools he has -- he's become primarily a jump shooter, and maybe a better 4 than 5. I take it not everyone in the Blazers organization is completely sold on him yet, but the fans generally appear very optimistic.

Kaminsky is one year younger than Leonard is now, and so if there is any similarity in paths, Leonard's big breakout year (3rd NBA season) occurred at the age that Kaminsky will be a rookie.

I know that every player's path is different, but what do you see as potential similarities/differences? Will Kaminsky's relative lack of athleticism doom him to lower NBA production? Or will Kaminsky's seemingly more skilled and varied offensive arsenal mitigate that?

If Kaminsky turns into a something of a Meyers Leonard, will you be satisfied (we're, of course, not even sure that Leonard can play an effective 25 mpg in the NBA yet)? Should we expect a period of Kaminsky looking overwhelmed?
 
I wonder how instructive the career of Meyers Leonard might be in helping us think about Frank Kaminsky. They're quite different players, to be sure: Leonard looks more the part of an athletic center; Kaminsky is more skilled at dribbling, assists and perhaps posting up, and probably has a better feel for the game.

But there are some similarities. Both were nothing to speak of as freshman centers in the Big 10. They could barely get off their respective benches. Both made great leaps (per-40 minutes as sophomores). The biggest difference was that Leonard got substantially more minutes as a sophomore, though their overall effectiveness per minute played looked fairly similar.

Then Kaminsky really blossomed as a junior and blew up as a senior. Leonard on the other hand was drafted (11th). He spent two years looking quite overwhelmed, like perhaps he had little future in the league. But this year, despite several DNPs and playing fewer minutes per game (15) than he did as a rookie, he's emerged as a very intriguing player for the future. He shot 51% from the field, including 42% from 3 (45% of his shots were 3s), and 91% from the line (though he almost never got to the line). According to B-Reference, his offensive rating was 117 and defensive was 102. He's rocketed up to a RPM rank of 29th among centers (from being in the slot below Enes Kanter a year ago -- at #63).

All this despite not really having a game that features the athletic tools he has -- he's become primarily a jump shooter, and maybe a better 4 than 5. I take it not everyone in the Blazers organization is completely sold on him yet, but the fans generally appear very optimistic.

Kaminsky is one year younger than Leonard is now, and so if there is any similarity in paths, Leonard's big breakout year (3rd NBA season) occurred at the age that Kaminsky will be a rookie.

I know that every player's path is different, but what do you see as potential similarities/differences? Will Kaminsky's relative lack of athleticism doom him to lower NBA production? Or will Kaminsky's seemingly more skilled and varied offensive arsenal mitigate that?

If Kaminsky turns into a something of a Meyers Leonard, will you be satisfied (we're, of course, not even sure that Leonard can play an effective 25 mpg in the NBA yet)? Should we expect a period of Kaminsky looking overwhelmed?

As noted their games are not similar. I want to see Leonard's percentages next year to make sure they aren't fluky.

There is something to be learned though I think. Leonard was billed as an athletic 7 footer who was unpolished. He really didn't know how to play and couldn't do much other than be big. Now that he can shoot he's become an effective rotation player. He's still not a great defensive player but is making improvements in his early 20s. He's now a legit rotation big.

I just don't know if we understand how effective stretch bigs are... Look at rpm for some of these guys over the last two years. It's such an asset to have.

I get it if people don't want frank but don't just say he's a senior no thanks... Or proclaim him to be a stiff while saying Myles turner is much quicker... Look at what he does well and what he struggles with and tell me why it does or doesn't translate.
 
Lol...MY FIRST SIG!!! looks like I'm smurfin' on up in the world.:p Guess I'll have to re-think my opinion of mr. freakazoid, as we now have something in common. Also, if you are the one getting the best of me, how come I'm not screaming at you in my sig:confused: Anyway, have a smurfy day!
smurf.gif

I just remember how mad you got last time I put you in my sig and you went on a neg tirade against me like a nerd. I can't wait to see the brilliance you bring this time around.
 
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