For People Who Think Hayward's Decision was Predetermined

[Siro]

People think there was some kind of conspiracy between Hayward and Boston?

Eh. I suspect that Hayward kind of knew he was leaving for a while. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision as he had spent 7 years of his life here, but I don't buy this torn until the last minute nonsense. He probably was leaning toward leaving for who knows how long (I'm thinking several years, given the analysis of all the signals, in retrospect), and I'm sure he knew that Boston would be a likely destination.

I don't think he had a hidden agreement with Boston, as that would be a very stupid thing for him to do.

 

[Siro]

He was leaning Boston all the way. I doubt he had his mind completely set, but I think he wanted to go there obviously.

The meeting in San Diego was "awkward". Of course it was. He was not a leader, and his former teammates felt that he was already gone.

Yep. I remember Gobert saying the meeting was awkward, and that he felt Hayward was probably leaving.

 

[Douchebag K]

Yep. I remember Gobert saying the meeting was awkward, and that he felt Hayward was probably leaving.

Cause he knew damn well he was going to play for Brad for a year or two. If he was truly even remotely still undecided before the season started and the year and growth and vision and professionalism and committment to him the Jazz organization showed didn't persuade him to stay .. well 2 and 2 make 4.

 

[stormkoopacv03]

Who the f cares, I don't. Let's all move on folks. I wouldn't want him back on the Jazz, if he wanted to return one day. He f'd up and good riddance is all I have to say.

 

[akirac73]

Cy still tryna defend Haywood...**** both of you.

 

[Miggs]

^
This.

 

[gregbroncs]

And they would have done it if they knew 100% Hayward was coming. The risk was too large to do all that and not have 100% knowledge Hayward was coming.

How and why? He explains perfectly why they couldn't do those trades if they wanted Hayward. Why would they risk not getting a star at all if they didn't believe they already had Hayward in the bag. This story just further confirms to me that they were really confident that Hayward was coming.

 

[Jazzta]

Because we needed another Cy thread.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The story confirms that Boston is poop... tldr but that is what I got out of it.

 

[candrew]

And they would have done it if they knew 100% Hayward was coming. The risk was too large to do all that and not have 100% knowledge Hayward was coming.

LOL - you don't know anything 100% until it happens. It's probable the Boston FO feared that Hayward might change his mind after QS turned things around so quickly in Utah - but it's readily obvious that Hayward told someone in the Boston organization at some point (probably Stevens), at least informally, that he was coming to Boston. Locke has mentioned on his podcast twice now that someone in the Boston front office told him over a year ago that Hayward was going to be a Celtic.

The Celtics announced the Bradley trade 48 hours after they signed Hayward - no doubt that deal was already done on paper by July 4. That's one of the reasons why the Crowder to Utah deal was ******** from the get go. Boston had been planning this for a while and The Jazz were never in the equation for obvious reasons.

 

[Jack Strop]

That's just flat-out wrong, dude.

Just to sign Hayward alone, they already had to salary dump Avery Bradley and forego re-signing several players. Add George's or Butler's ~19.5M to the cap, and even if they salary dump Jae Crowder's 6.7M they STILL would've been almost $13M above where they'd need to be to make room in the cap to sign Hayward.

Even if you want to argue that they would still be willing to do it, the no-brainer approach would still have been to sign Hayward first in FA before making any trade, to save themselves from also having to salary dump Crowder + others.

So basically Hayward waiting until July 4th because he wanted the NBA's attention and had made a deal to announce his decision on the Player's Yribune, screwed Boston too. Had he agreed to do what we all figured he would on July 1st, Boston could have made deals For Butler or George. But Gordon wanted to be wined and dined like a Too Big MIP. Gawd I hope he and Irving clash over who gets shots.

 

[Chargers Jazz Angels]

the hard part for me was that Chris Paul showed a little respect for the clips and got a SnT done. Hayward could have said something similar and just got Hayward for Crowder and they could still have Avery Bradley on the team.

Screw the people that say why would he make the team he is going to worse well guess what Crowder is now a bench guy that would be luck to get 20 minutes a night. If Boston still felt that trading Bradley for Morris was an upgrade then do it but they wouldnt have been forced to.

Boston still had the assets to trade for Irving to with out Crowder being added to that trade

but it is over now and time to move and watch the Jazz crush the celtics

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think Hayward will regret his decision by the all star break. Bet the under on these guys. Easy money.

 

[Spinoza]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...avaliers-kyrie-irving-isaiah-thomas-trade-nba

The Celtics were concerned about trading for a guy like George or Butler at least partially out of fear of not landing Hayward.

All this shows is that Hayward hadn't told Boston he was committed to them, which of course would have been a horrible idea considering the effect it would have had on his leverage in contract negotiations. I don't think us Jazz fans think Hayward had truly committed to Boston until close to the end. The analogy I would use is that of a bachelor with three girls chasing him. He knows all along he strongly prefers girl A, and that if everything goes as planned he will be choosing her. But he keeps girls B and C within arms length for security reasons. You never know what could happen and it's good to keep your options open. Plus it's not like he wouldn't enjoy being with girls B and C, just that he would greatly prefer girl A.

 

[Spinoza]

I think Hayward will regret his decision by the all star break. Bet the under on these guys. Easy money.

You might be forgetting that they're in the Eastern Conference. In the West they would have to fight to get the 6th seed, but they are easily top three in the East.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You might be forgetting that they're in the Eastern Conference. In the West they would have to fight to get the 6th seed, but they are easily top three in the East.

Top 3 does not equal 57 wins. They have done some statistical modeling and the conference adds maybe 3 wins. Playoff seeding though is obviously a strength. I'm just not convinced they will be better than last year and I will absolutely put my money where my mouth is if I am in Nevada at some point this month.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

All this shows is that Hayward hadn't told Boston he was committed to them, which of course would have been a horrible idea considering the effect it would have had on his leverage in contract negotiations. I don't think us Jazz fans think Hayward had truly committed to Boston until close to the end. The analogy I would use is that of a bachelor with three girls chasing him. He knows all along he strongly prefers girl A, and that if everything goes as planned he will be choosing her. But he keeps girls B and C within arms length for security reasons. You never know what could happen and it's good to keep your options open. Plus it's not like he wouldn't enjoy being with girls B and C, just that he would greatly prefer girl A.

If they weren't sure they were getting Hayward then why not get Butler for the discount he was traded for? I think they knew he was coming or were at least relatively certain and that is why they worried about them meshing. Also didn't want to rock the boat too much before they got the guy they wanted/knew they were getting.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The East lost Paul Millsap, Jimmy Butler, and Paul George. That's 12 games that just got way easier for the Celtics. Plus they only play the Cavs 3 times this year. I think they win at least 53. 57 is easily reachable for them.

 

[Spinoza]

Top 3 does not equal 57 wins. They have done some statistical modeling and the conference adds maybe 3 wins. Playoff seeding though is obviously a strength. I'm just not convinced they will be better than last year and I will absolutely put my money where my mouth is if I am in Nevada at some point this month.

Yea, I put them in the 50-55 win range. I agree they're not better than they were last year (I personally think they got worse), and I also think they outperformed a bit last year thanks to Thomas' unexpectedly good season. However, the East is just god awful this year. It's the Cavs, the Celtics, and that's it. The rest of the teams are barely worthy of discussion. Although I will say when you have a conference that weak there's bound to be a sleeper team that will win 50 games out of nowhere.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yea, I put them in the 50-55 win range. I agree they're not better than they were last year (I personally think they got worse), and I also think they outperformed a bit last year thanks to Thomas' unexpectedly good season. However, the East is just god awful this year. It's the Cavs, the Celtics, and that's it. The rest of the teams are barely worthy of discussion. Although I will say when you have a conference that weak there's bound to be a sleeper team that will win 50 games out of nowhere.

The Raptors and Wizards are still pretty good teams too, but after that, that's pretty much it.