Game Thread: Utah @ BYU, Sat. 9/21 8:15pm MT, ESPN2

[colton]

You don't have to be an alumnus to root for BYU.


Every Mormon that I've met here in Canada is a BYU fan.

What percentage were not alumni?

I say it's embarrassing, because BYU should have WAY bigger audiences than the Utes, for very obvious reasons what I won't re-state.

What's the size of the Pac12 media market? How does that compare to the membership of the LDS church? Even if you do suppose all LDS church members are BYU fans, which is clearly not the case, I'm not sure why you are saying that it's obvious BYU should have a much bigger audience.

But of course, consecutive years of ineptitude at a sport will do that to a program.

Not sure how any BYU fan can deny any of this.

Yeah, consecutive seasons of 10, 11, 7, 10, and 8 wins (just going back the past 5 years) really indicate ineptitude. /sarcasm

 

[UGLI baby]

For kicks I did a quick web search just now to see if anyone had a compilation of all of the rankings/polls. Found this site:
https://masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

I imported the data into a spreadsheet to compare BYU and Utah. Looks like there are 113 total rankings/polls that include BYU and Utah. 86 currently rank BYU higher than Utah, and 27 rank Utah higher than BYU.

The rankings right now are as of last Saturday's games. Obviously BYU will move up a bit with their win over Boise State. If Utah beats USC they will as well. Interestingly enough, Boise State and USC are very close to the same average ranking (39 for USC, 43 for Boise State).

Wow, that is quite the eye opener colton.

Did some poking around of my own and found this site to have some very compelling statistics:

https://riseandshout.net/

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Not a Ute fan

You see the world through your cynical eyes
You're a troubled young man i can tell

You keep denying you're a Ute fan
And you're fooling yourself if you don't believe it
You're kidding yourself if you don't believe it
How can you be such an angry young man
When your future looks quite bright to me
How can there be such a sinister plan
That could hide such a lamb, such a caring young man

You're fooling yourself if you don't believe it
You're kidding yourself if you don't believe it

.

 

[colton]

Wow, that is quite the eye opener colton.

Did some poking around of my own and found this site to have some very compelling statistics:

https://riseandshout.net/

Must be quite aggravating for you Ute fans that are still so hung up on BYU that you are rated on average 10 spots below the Cougars even though you won the game. https://masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm. Seems kind of like Rodney Dangerfield, if you ask me.


P.S. You need to be proud of me that I refrained from making a comment like, "At last! A statistical site that the typical Ute fan can comprehend!" ;-)

 

[UGLI baby]

ROFLcopter

What's awesome about winning the rivalry game every year is never having to come up with theories or arguments on why we are better. lol

just gonna bump this one.

 

[Deleted member 848]

What percentage were not alumni?

I graduated with at least 10 other Mormon kids, and only one of them went to BYU (he's there currently).

What's the size of the Pac12 media market? How does that compare to the membership of the LDS church? Even if you do suppose all LDS church members are BYU fans, which is clearly not the case, I'm not sure why you are saying that it's obvious BYU should have a much bigger audience.

Because with this thought-process, you are inferring that people watching a team in their own conference should be on the same level as people following the single division I institution representing a faith that many consider a huge part of their identity. It's honestly laughable, Colton. I cannot believe you are equating Mormons following BYU to a random fan watching the Utes just because they're in the same conference. I suppose you are entitled to your opinion, but I'm rather shocked if this is one that you hold.

Yeah, consecutive seasons of 10, 11, 7, 10, and 8 wins (just going back the past 5 years) really indicate ineptitude. /sarcasm

How many times have they beat the Utes in those years?

 

[Deleted member 848]

.

No surprise that the response an un-biased dude gets, is one of the teams calling him a fan of the other.




Please share a few reasons why a non-drinking, 20 year old Muslim from Canada (who doesn't even watch football) would root for the Utes over BYU, or root for the Utes ahead of any other college team in the country.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

No surprise that the response an un-biased dude gets, is one of the teams calling him a fan of the other.




Please share a few reasons why a non-drinking, 20 year old Muslim from Canada (who doesn't even watch football) would root for the Utes over BYU, or root for the Utes ahead of any other college team in the country.

I'm not sure, but you should be the one telling me. You do a good job of pretending to be a Ute fan if you are in fact "unbiased".

 

[Jazz Spazz]

[serious]

I find it crazy that the Utes more often than not play better than normal for big games and win them, then go back to losing to other teams, for the most part.
I also find it crazy that the Cougars more often than not play down to the level of bad teams and lose against them quite often.

It's like two sides of a coin.

Utah beats Stanford and BYU this year.
BYU loses to Virginia and Utah this year.

It seems to be a recurring theme played out year after year. It might have to do with the coaching styles of Whit and Bronco.

[/serious]
[superserious]
Yewt schmewt
[/superserious]

 

[Deleted member 848]

I'm not sure

Shocker.

but you should be the one telling me. You do a good job of pretending to be a Ute fan if you are in fact "unbiased".

Right, because me laughing when I watch a fan-base concoct excuses as to why their team is 'better' (after losing fair in square just a month ago)-- and then providing an opinion as to why I think their audience has been lower than it should be, cements me as doing a great job of pretending to be a Utah fan.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

If the BYU fans who are posting in this thread heard someone else making the exact same arguments they are spouting for a different team I sure hope they would be intelligent enough to recognize how idiotic these points are. We don't have to measure how these teams might match up using theoretical means like polls. We have history to definitively show us that when these two team meet UTES WIN! UTES WIN! UTES WIN! UTES WIN!

 

[fishonjazz]

You don't have to be an alumnus to root for BYU.


Every Mormon that I've met here in Canada is a BYU fan. I say it's embarrassing, because BYU should have WAY bigger audiences than the Utes, for very obvious reasons what I won't re-state. But of course, consecutive years of ineptitude at a sport will do that to a program.

Not sure how any BYU fan can deny any of this.

Define ineptitude.... oh and way to be unbiased mr non ute fan dalamon

 

[fishonjazz]

If the BYU fans who are posting in this thread heard someone else making the exact same arguments they are spouting for a different team I sure hope they would be intelligent enough to recognize how idiotic these points are. We don't have to measure how these teams might match up using theoretical means like polls. We have history to definitively show us that when these two team meet UTES WIN! UTES WIN! UTES WIN! UTES WIN!

All I saw colton say was that byu is ranked higher and quoted an arcticle showing that.
He didn't say byu shoukd have beat utah, or would beat them if they played again.

BURN HIM AT THE STAKE

 

[colton]

Because with this thought-process, you are inferring that people watching a team in their own conference should be on the same level as people following the single division I institution representing a faith that many consider a huge part of their identity. It's honestly laughable, Colton. I cannot believe you are equating Mormons following BYU to a random fan watching the Utes just because they're in the same conference. I suppose you are entitled to your opinion, but I'm rather shocked if this is one that you hold.

What's "honestly laughable" is you telling me what I am supposed to be embarrassed about. That's where this started, remember?

But just to expound a bit more--no, I wasn't equating levels of fandom. But I'm saying the population base in the Pac12 region is SO LARGE, even compared to the total LDS church membership, that even if there's only a 5-10% chance of a random Pac12 fan tuning in to a Ute game* the numbers make sense to me.

And I'm really not sure what you are arguing here. Are you saying there are more BYU fans than there actually are? Are you just saying there SHOULD BE more BYU fans than there actually are? If so, why are you saying that? Who are you to say someone else should be a fan? This whole discussion just seems bizarre.


* which seems very reasonable to me, considering the fans of the Pac12 opponent for the particular game plus perhaps a few other Pac12 fans who tune in as well

 

[colton]

All I saw colton say was that byu is ranked higher and quoted an arcticle showing that.
He didn't say byu shoukd have beat utah, or would beat them if they played again.

In fact, I specifically said the opposite.*

BURN HIM AT THE STAKE

Yep.


* edit: although to be fair, the reason I did post the link to the article that had the ranking info (DesNews?), was in reaction to Ute fan putting BYU down

 

[colton]

Come to think of it, one thing that has puzzled me is the way some fans feel a need to put down the teams they have beaten. If you think about it, that minimizes THEIR team's accomplishment.

 

[Deleted member 848]

What's "honestly laughable" is you telling me what I am supposed to be embarrassed about. That's where this started, remember?

No, this started with me reading your post about you saying that you could not understand how the Utes did not have more viewers-- so I felt compelled to address something what to me seems quite logical.

But just to expound a bit more--no, I wasn't equating levels of fandom. But I'm saying the population base in the Pac12 region is SO LARGE, even compared to the total LDS church membership, that even if there's only a 5-10% chance of a random Pac12 fan tuning in to a Ute game* the numbers make sense to me.

You are missing my point again.

And I'm really not sure what you are arguing here. Are you saying there are more BYU fans than there actually are? Are you just saying there SHOULD BE more BYU fans than there actually are? If so, why are you saying that? Who are you to say someone else should be a fan? This whole discussion just seems bizarre.


* which seems very reasonable to me, considering the fans of the Pac12 opponent for the particular game plus perhaps a few other Pac12 fans who tune in as well

My posts have been quite-clear, and I don't feel like re-stating myself. Try reading them again. It's as if you are completely ignoring the fact that many people will root for athletics that represent their identity, regardless of whether they share a deep love for the sport or not. Sports are often an extenuation of deeply-entrenched pride, whether nationalistic or religious. Rooting for sports is not just a process were you like a sport, and root for your alma-mater. Why do you think we see riots form in highly nationalistic countries, after sports victories/defeats?

The religious undertones already establish BYU v. Utah as a top ten college rivalry (pretty damn impressive for a state with ~3 million people), and it would easily be a top 5 or top 3 if both teams were consistently good football teams at the same time.

Either way, I cannot believe I'm spending time trying to explain why BYU should have a fan base much more vast than a secular school in a state with 3 million people (event when you take into account the hard-core football-fans who already invest plenty of time following their own teams).

Essentially, if you really think that the Utes should have more fans tuned in than BYU, then thats your prerogative. I have no further motivation to continue this conversation.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Come to think of it, one thing that has puzzled me is the way some fans feel a need to put down the teams they have beaten. If you think about it, that minimizes THEIR team's accomplishment.

Didn't you just say that you actively root against the Utes, no matter who they are playing?


That could easily be construed as petty, and it detriments your fan-base's reputation by suggesting that you will only be happy if you have your sense of schadenfreude fulfilled along with rooting for a school with a good football program.














In my opinion: Both are part of being huge fans of sports-- and both are completely okay. Being a prick is part of what sports is all about. If the Jazz beat the Heat and the Lakers in the finals you can bet your *** I will talk HUGE AMOUNTS trash to the 3983734 people who've made fun of my team, and said that they're teams are so much better and that the Jazz suck and that the people in Utah are all inbred polygamists. Sports is bigger than just a win-loss column.

 

[UGLI baby]

Dalamon its your pick in BF league


£¥£

 

[colton]

No, this started with me reading your post about you saying that you could not understand how the Utes did not have more viewers-- so I felt compelled to address something what to me seems quite logical.

That's not at all what I said. But anyway...

Essentially, if you really think that the Utes should have more fans tuned in than BYU, then thats your prerogative. I have no further motivation to continue this conversation.

I think it's stupid to say how many fans they SHOULD have. My point of view is that the current viewership numbers make sense. Your point of view is apparently that they do not. I don't think I'm the one with problems here.