Game Thread: Utah Jazz Vs. Phoenix Suns April 4th @ 7:00 PM
- Thread starter GoJazz
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Time and time again Ty watches his team come out and give up easy bucket after easy bucket to start the game. No TO's , no butt chewing, no benchings. And that is why it happens time after time.
//r00t 4 Jazz
Well-Known Member
He called a pretty quick TO last night once the Suns went up 10-2 (or 4 whatever it was) it was about 2-3min into the game. I don't think most coaches make a change to their starting line up that quick and realistically the only person I think he would yank that quickly that is starting is CJ (which he kind of did in Porty around the 6min mark) but CJ was the only starter that looked aggressive to start last night.
Some similar complaints about Sloan that he never benched any of the starters for poor defense, hustle or whatever. Sloan would yell however but so far that doesn't seem to be Corbin's style, seen it a little but not much, he seems more like a positive reinforcement kind of coach (but I could be wrong).
I would like this slow start pattern to change but I'm also trying to think realistic and think of what he could do. I know Sloan would occasionally start with a passing offense to try and get everybody to touch the ball, guess that could work. When Harris gets back I'd like him to say run to the rim no matter what on the first couple of possessions, get fouled, get a layup or back it out if nothings there but just something to try and get some energy going.
Yup: Ty learned it all from Ol' Jer. Talk big about defense but never actually do anything to enforce it. What can he do? Start Favors over Sap or Big Al.
Sap and Big Al are a terrible defensive tandem. Good O, no D. At times, horrible horrible D. Like to start the games last night where Gortat had a layup drill going on. And remember the early game against the Clips? It was on TNT and Hubie was exclaiming about how the first 5 buckets the clips got were highlight reel dunks. And what did Tyrone do then? Nada.
It seems to me that the Jazz coaches, Jer and now Ty, are just very very stuck on running the "Jazz" offense, and defense be damned.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Nice backpedal. Here's the excerpt in question:
If Favors wasn't the BEST option, who was? Kanter? You spoke plainly. A little intellectual honesty would be nice.Brown Notes said:
Also:
And I didn't say that. What a slimy little weasel you are.Brown Notes said:
Brown Notes
Well-Known Member
Wow, what a winner. A cherry pick and a deliberate failure to understand a statement.
There has been nothing misleading or dishonest whatsoever with my discourse here. I don't believe Favors can keep a guy like Gortat away from the rim. Maybe he could have but there isn't a lot of evidence he can bully these huge guys out of there. As far as your second wicked burn of a quote Utah played much better D in crunch time with Al on the floor. That's a perfectly true and relevant fact. Read that again. You can't say is not the same as you did say. Douchey.
Your contention is that playing Favors over Jefferson in this game, against the Suns would clearly and plainly provide better results. I don't think that is necessarily true. I can see why you wear that helmet if that position makes you so upset.
If Favors is in the game more maybe he could have made more of a positive difference, maybe not. Favors is still pretty raw and is prone to turn the ball over. The point here is that this isn't a fire the coach issue. The Suns are flat-out a tough matchup for Utah. Teams with a great point and a bunch of shooters always are. You want to make it all about Jefferson and that just isn't the case. In fact you already made it clear that you've been waiting for a less than stellar offensive night to pounce on the opportunity to bash the guy. Apparently Al has only saved himself from your fearsome wrath with a string of very good offensive showings. You are biased.
Utah's starters beat the Sun's starters by 24 points. Utah's bench lost to the Sun's bench by 26. Nash only had to play 32 minutes because Tinsley could not contain Telfair. Late in the game with everything on the line it took a couple of great plays by a HOF player, and some crazy/lucky ones, along with some bad calls for Utah to come up short. Not to mention a critical missed FT.
Of course with your MHP blinders on all you can see is Al sucking while you clutch your torch & pitchfork. No wonder it gets your goat so bad for somebody to mildly dispute that. FFS it's not like I'm painting Al's performance as great.
It's beyond ridiculous to say that one player is responsible or that the coach was stupid to have him in there. Ty could have gone big, or put Favors in for AJ more but there is zero guarantee that would have worked out any better. The coach hunters here think Ty's job is easy and these decisions are black and white clear. It just isn't so.
GVC
Well-Known Member
No. My point is that the statement that Al was the best option at the 5, which is what your initial statement implied (no?), is ridiculous, given his performance relative to other options (Favors). That Al's minutes were increased, despite his poor play, is disappointing. Dude gets gassed quick, and it's clear he didn't have much energy last night. Favors was playing well. Why not go to him for more than 15 minutes? Why not put the team in the best position to win an important game?
Again, do you really think the Jazz's chances at winning that game would have been worse had Favors been given 5-10 of Al's minutes?
And all I can see is Al sucking? How so? When was the last time I bitched about this? Al has not been a major problem this year, and I've said as much many times. He shouldn't have played 37 minutes last night. The Jazz would have been in better position to win had some of those minutes gone to Favors.
Also, Favors shouldn't be punished for the poor play of the other bench players. Likewise, Al shouldn't be rewarded for the good play of the other starters.
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GVC
Well-Known Member
Do you really think that Al was the best option at the 5 for 37 minutes last night?
It would be nice if you gave a straight answer, instead of dodging every question I ask.
OK here is my personal take on the game last night, some things have already been said, some havent...
Once again, the Jazz starters were slow to get going and had to fight from behind most of the game. They cannot keep doing this as the energy needed to come from behind is much more than just staying even with a team the whole time. Big Al was horrid in the pick and roll, and should have been benched. Millsap also had troubles with this early but after the first quarter, he figured it out well. Favors was doing great in the pick and roll, and should have seen more time. I also saw a large number of mistakes by both rookies. Alec Burkes should NEVER get beat by Michael Redd down the floor, and for it to happen not once, but 3 seperate times was inexcusable. Kanter looked soft as well, and once he gets frustrated with things not going his way, he starts pulling up and playing worse instead of bucking down and trying harder. I also put some blame on Ty for his rotations. At the end of the game the successful lineup would have been Watson, CJ, Hayward, Millsap and Favors. I also am shocked that we did not see that "3bigs" lineup again, trying to make Phoenix slow the game down and match that in the half court. I am also shocked that Ty didn't try a "4small" lineup with Tinsley, Burkes, Hayward, CJ and Favors. Personally based on how I saw people play, I think that these 2 alternate lineups could have controlled the pace much better, and could have forced Phoenix to match up. We didnt need a big on Frye, as he does not post up and play like a big. He is a shooting guard in a big body, be likes to stay out at the 3 point line. Lest we forget that he was the 3 point champ in the past years. This was a mistake that Ty made in his lineups for sure. We are for sure missing Josh Howard as a more defensive 2/3, and that is hurting us as CJ often gambles on defense, going under a screen he should go over, or trying to get a steal, missing and then leaving the team playing 4 on 5 until he gets back in.
The last observation from last night was the officiating, I cannot blame it totally on the officials, however, they were abysmal! You would have thought with David Stearn in the house, that they would have been top notch. Of the 3 officials last night, only one has called a fair number of games. Two of the referees last night had called less than 3 games all season, yet they were paired together? Whoever set that lineup of refs should be fired. I can see putting one with only a few games with two who have been in all season, but you just dont do it the way it was done last night. In addition there were so many missed calls, (more missed called for the Jazz than the Suns) that you have to wonder what the heck was going on. Right at the start of the game the offensive foul on CJ miles (was a block for sure, not a charge), and the travel on Millsap that should have been a foul. Then as the game went on, every charge/block went against the Jazz period. Also there were dozens of illegal screens being set by the Suns that were never called, plus we could not get calls in the paint. Near the end of the game, Hayward goes up, gets mugged, hits the shot to tie it up, no call... last home game we saw similar things, but then when Cousins was in the key on their end, they call a foul that was not there, or was a touch foul, and he gets free throws. Like I said, I am not saying that the game was all officals, but there was a definite bias last night toward the Suns. The lead official, Derrick Stafford, has had issues with Utah for years, and I would guess that we probably lose 75% of the games he officiates, if not more. It seemed to me that Stern being in the house, sitting courtside with Gail Miller, Randy Rigby and some other big-wigs, actually worked in the Suns favor. We cannot get home court calls on our own floor anymore, yet other teams get those calls on their own home courts. I do not know what is happening but there seems a definite bias in many of our games.
All in all there were a large amount of factors in this and the prior home loss, none bigger than the defense in the paint. We have actually been very good most of the season on paint defense, however the pick and roll has killed us as of lately. Big Al has been the weakest point there. Last night he could have offset his defensive liability by putting up larger numbers, however he didnt, and unfortunately Ty stuck with Al instead of Favors, and we lost. I hope that Ty realizes that in the Pick and Roll that Al is a liability, and when we are seeing that, hope he realizes that Favors in the answer, not Jefferson. But hey this is all my opinion and what I have seen.
Once again, the Jazz starters were slow to get going and had to fight from behind most of the game. They cannot keep doing this as the energy needed to come from behind is much more than just staying even with a team the whole time. Big Al was horrid in the pick and roll, and should have been benched. Millsap also had troubles with this early but after the first quarter, he figured it out well. Favors was doing great in the pick and roll, and should have seen more time. I also saw a large number of mistakes by both rookies. Alec Burkes should NEVER get beat by Michael Redd down the floor, and for it to happen not once, but 3 seperate times was inexcusable. Kanter looked soft as well, and once he gets frustrated with things not going his way, he starts pulling up and playing worse instead of bucking down and trying harder. I also put some blame on Ty for his rotations. At the end of the game the successful lineup would have been Watson, CJ, Hayward, Millsap and Favors. I also am shocked that we did not see that "3bigs" lineup again, trying to make Phoenix slow the game down and match that in the half court. I am also shocked that Ty didn't try a "4small" lineup with Tinsley, Burkes, Hayward, CJ and Favors. Personally based on how I saw people play, I think that these 2 alternate lineups could have controlled the pace much better, and could have forced Phoenix to match up. We didnt need a big on Frye, as he does not post up and play like a big. He is a shooting guard in a big body, be likes to stay out at the 3 point line. Lest we forget that he was the 3 point champ in the past years. This was a mistake that Ty made in his lineups for sure. We are for sure missing Josh Howard as a more defensive 2/3, and that is hurting us as CJ often gambles on defense, going under a screen he should go over, or trying to get a steal, missing and then leaving the team playing 4 on 5 until he gets back in.
The last observation from last night was the officiating, I cannot blame it totally on the officials, however, they were abysmal! You would have thought with David Stearn in the house, that they would have been top notch. Of the 3 officials last night, only one has called a fair number of games. Two of the referees last night had called less than 3 games all season, yet they were paired together? Whoever set that lineup of refs should be fired. I can see putting one with only a few games with two who have been in all season, but you just dont do it the way it was done last night. In addition there were so many missed calls, (more missed called for the Jazz than the Suns) that you have to wonder what the heck was going on. Right at the start of the game the offensive foul on CJ miles (was a block for sure, not a charge), and the travel on Millsap that should have been a foul. Then as the game went on, every charge/block went against the Jazz period. Also there were dozens of illegal screens being set by the Suns that were never called, plus we could not get calls in the paint. Near the end of the game, Hayward goes up, gets mugged, hits the shot to tie it up, no call... last home game we saw similar things, but then when Cousins was in the key on their end, they call a foul that was not there, or was a touch foul, and he gets free throws. Like I said, I am not saying that the game was all officals, but there was a definite bias last night toward the Suns. The lead official, Derrick Stafford, has had issues with Utah for years, and I would guess that we probably lose 75% of the games he officiates, if not more. It seemed to me that Stern being in the house, sitting courtside with Gail Miller, Randy Rigby and some other big-wigs, actually worked in the Suns favor. We cannot get home court calls on our own floor anymore, yet other teams get those calls on their own home courts. I do not know what is happening but there seems a definite bias in many of our games.
All in all there were a large amount of factors in this and the prior home loss, none bigger than the defense in the paint. We have actually been very good most of the season on paint defense, however the pick and roll has killed us as of lately. Big Al has been the weakest point there. Last night he could have offset his defensive liability by putting up larger numbers, however he didnt, and unfortunately Ty stuck with Al instead of Favors, and we lost. I hope that Ty realizes that in the Pick and Roll that Al is a liability, and when we are seeing that, hope he realizes that Favors in the answer, not Jefferson. But hey this is all my opinion and what I have seen.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Favors was totally dominated by Robin Lopez last night.
prodigy
Well-Known Member
I noticed that as well, some of those were obvious blocking fouls, like the Gortat one on Hayward. Also Al got hit on his game tying shot but nothing was called.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Dude swung at and connected with his head(IIRC). Crazy.
There's a lot to address here, but the biggest singular issue by a mile was how putrid Al's defense was. Millsap had to guard two players most of the night the second Al stepped past the free throw line.
Going into more detail, the best thing Ty did all night was put Millsap on Gortat and have Al stay-at-home on Frye.
Going into more detail, the best thing Ty did all night was put Millsap on Gortat and have Al stay-at-home on Frye.
Weezur
Well-Known Member
I keep saying it, Al is gassed. He needs rest and he won't be getting any down this stretch. We'll keep seeing him go to that faceup jumper more and more.
Scorpjazz
Well-Known Member
Kinda funny how every single game no matter a win or a loss totally backs up every single poster in here's opinion about every player. If they hate or love Al, Harris, Sap, Ty, Hayward, and so on, each game is spun to reassert each poster's previous claims about whoever they love/hate....amazing how that works, and usually makes sense either way also.
Weezur
Well-Known Member
Everything's funny if you laugh a lot
Brown Notes
Well-Known Member
Yes. Al was the best option at C vs the Suns. Your contention that Favors would have been so much better is subjective.
Your contention all along has been that Al should have had less and Favors more. I agree but not to your degree. I would take 1 or 2 minutes away in the 4th but that's quibbling.
If you wanted CJ and Hayward to give up minutes to a big lineup then count me in.
Apparently It is BN vs The entire board. Whee.
Scorpjazz
Well-Known Member
You look just like Buddy Holly. Im laughing again. Ty