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Gamethread: Jazz v Lakers. 7pm MST.

Spinoza said:
Also, Hassan Whiteside and Jermaine O'Neal are relatively simple counterexamples to your argument that ALL 19 year-olds play at a certain level in order to be successful. And honestly, Exum looks a lot better to me than many other fresh-out-of HS players I've seen.
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Whiteside only played 2 minutes his rookie season. His per-minutes stats since then have been great:

2011-2012: 16.2 PER
2014-2015: 27.4 PER

O'Neal also didn't play many minutes when he was young, but his per-minutes stats were also good:

1996-1997: 13.7 PER
1997-1998: 12.6 PER
1998-1999: 13.7 PER

Either Exum can't do it, or he won't. We can only hope the latter is true. Maybe it's time for Snyder to demand some accountability from him. Bench him and/or send him to the DLeague. Maybe then he'll wake up.
 
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SeattleJazz beat me to it...

r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
Whiteside only played 2 minutes his rookie season. His per-minutes stats since then have been great:

2011-2012: 16.2 PER
2014-2015: 27.4 PER

O'Neal also didn't play many minutes when he was young, but his per-minutes stats were also good:

1996-1997: 13.7 PER
1997-1998: 12.6 PER
1998-1999: 13.7 PER

Either Exum can't do it, or he won't. We can only hope the latter is true. Maybe it's time for Snyder to demand some accountability from him. Bench him and/or send him to the DLeague. Maybe then he'll wake up.
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seattlejazzfan said:
I think perhaps you don't understand the extent of Exum's suckitude. Jermaine O'Neal, at age 18 (remember Exum is 19), had a PER of 13. Exum's PER is 6. O'Neal was not close to as bad as Exum. O'Neal didn't get big minutes, but when he played, he actually competed and produced. Whiteside, whenever he's gotten extended minutes, has produced. He didn't play in his "rookie" year (played 2 minutes all year), but in his second year, he played 18 games and had a PER of 16. This year is really his first with significant minutes, the kind of minutes Exum is getting and he has a PER of 27.
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what's this really about, bruce? What else is going wrong in yr life? *sniffles*
 
Whenever somebody starts using the argument that a player is bad at defense because he doesn't get steals, that's a pretty good time to stop listening to them. I know Exum has been disappointing, but we all knew he was going to be super raw, and you can't really compare him to previous players...his is a pretty unique situation. I'm not too concerned about it yet.
 
Hantlers said:
Whenever somebody starts using the argument that a player is bad at defense because he doesn't get steals, that's a pretty good time to stop listening to them. I know Exum has been disappointing, but we all knew he was going to be super raw, and you can't really compare him to previous players...his is a pretty unique situation. I'm not too concerned about it yet.
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This.

But, frreal, seattlejazzfan has been unlistenable on this subject since, like, the 5th game of the season.
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
Whiteside only played 2 minutes his rookie season. His per-minutes stats since then have been great:

2011-2012: 16.2 PER
2014-2015: 27.4 PER

O'Neal also didn't play many minutes when he was young, but his per-minutes stats were also good:

1996-1997: 13.7 PER
1997-1998: 12.6 PER
1998-1999: 13.7 PER

Either Exum can't do it, or he won't. We can only hope the latter is true. Maybe it's time for Snyder to demand some accountability from him. Bench him and/or send him to the DLeague. Maybe then he'll wake up.
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Agreed. Problem with the Dleague is I think Jazz brass are worried DLeaguers would kick his *** and what little confidence he currenty has would be gone.
 
Hantlers said:
Whenever somebody starts using the argument that a player is bad at defense because he doesn't get steals, that's a pretty good time to stop listening to them. I know Exum has been disappointing, but we all knew he was going to be super raw, and you can't really compare him to previous players...his is a pretty unique situation. I'm not too concerned about it yet.
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Hantlers, reading is fundamental. Please show me where I said Exum was bad defensively. in fact, I said the opposite. Hard to have a discussion with people who can't read. Oh well.
 
Sigh.

Everyone just needs to give Dante time. He's a rookie. Maybe he will figure it out and maybe he won't. But trying to determine either at this point is absurd and looks more like agenda pushing than anything.
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
Whiteside only played 2 minutes his rookie season. His per-minutes stats since then have been great:

2011-2012: 16.2 PER
2014-2015: 27.4 PER

O'Neal also didn't play many minutes when he was young, but his per-minutes stats were also good:

1996-1997: 13.7 PER
1997-1998: 12.6 PER
1998-1999: 13.7 PER

Either Exum can't do it, or he won't. We can only hope the latter is true. Maybe it's time for Snyder to demand some accountability from him. Bench him and/or send him to the DLeague. Maybe then he'll wake up.
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This is what I'm saying too, pull him back to the bench so he thinks 'wait, what's going on?' Boy, you look like this out there that's what's going on:

Nurture_Chicken_Spread%5B2%5D_1.jpg
 
Stoked said:
Sigh.

Everyone just needs to give Dante time. He's a rookie. Maybe he will figure it out and maybe he won't. But trying to determine either at this point is absurd and looks more like agenda pushing than anything.
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Even rookie can compete. I'm not even looking for him to be a world beater or even be good. I just want him to compete on the offensive end. To try to do something. Granted, history sshows guys who are this bad generally don't make it as really good players, but that isn't really even my point. As a Jazz fan and a basketball fan in general, it's just hard to watch a guy who won't do anything on one end of the floor. I just want him to go out and play. Make people guard him.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
I think perhaps you don't understand the extent of Exum's suckitude. Jermaine O'Neal, at age 18 (remember Exum is 19), had a PER of 13. Exum's PER is 6. O'Neal was not close to as bad as Exum. O'Neal didn't get big minutes, but when he played, he actually competed and produced. Whiteside, whenever he's gotten extended minutes, has produced. He didn't play in his "rookie" year (played 2 minutes all year), but in his second year, he played 18 games and had a PER of 16. This year is really his first with significant minutes, the kind of minutes Exum is getting and he has a PER of 27.
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Exum will be a star. Period.
 
Hantlers said:
Whenever somebody starts using the argument that a player is bad at defense because he doesn't get steals, that's a pretty good time to stop listening to them. I know Exum has been disappointing, but we all knew he was going to be super raw, and you can't really compare him to previous players...his is a pretty unique situation. I'm not too concerned about it yet.
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Aha, sure. Sorry but you disqualify yourself with this posting. Nobody just picked 1 thing and based the arguement on this, for examole in steals. Overall in every kind of aspect he just sucks. And as a guard, his steals numbers are just abysmal. It wouldn't be a big deal because every player will/can have flaws, like centers who can't rebound well or shooters can't shoot well. BUT Exum has not one single "ok" attribute.


Dante Exum having worst rookie season since Austin Rivers

Exum rookie season 4.7ppg, 2.3apg, 1.2 turnovers, .345FG%
Rivers rookie season 6.2ppg, 2.2apg, 1.2 turnovers, .372FG%

Exum is on pace to having the worst rookie season in NBA history, surpassing Austin Rivers' rookie season in numbers and efficiency, with at least averaging over 20 minutes per game.

Wiggins, Parker, Aaron Gordon, and Exum are all age 19, but Exum is by far having the worst season of the 19yr old who got drafted.

Every draft has their Darko, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Shaun Livingston, Jonathan Bender, Yi Jianlian, Evan Turner, Jan Vesely. Will Exum be the bust of this draft?
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Source: RealGm
 
seattlejazzfan said:
I'm not sure what the word is to describe Exum on offense, but he might be the most stationary player in the league. Offensively the guy just does nothing. Defensively he's solid, but even on defense, doesn't make plays. 16 out of the last 24 games, he doesn't have a steal. Now 19 games in a row that he hasn't attempted a FT and 24 of the last 25. For a guy playing 25 minutes a game that is an embarrasingly pathetic statistic. Probaby an NBA record for futility. The excuse on Exum is that he's young, but history shows that when a guy is this bad, does so little, at age, 18, 19, 20 they simply don't become star NBA players. You look back at guys who came into the league either out of HS and become really good NBA players, they were never as bad or as "stationary" as Exum. Supposed to be a great passer. He plays 25 minutes and gets 3 assists a game. Embarrassing. Fellow rookie Jordan Clarkson made him look like a bitch last night. Hell, he is a bitch.

Watching Exum on the offensive end of the floor reminds of watching Jimmer on defense. All the other four guys are out there doing **** - making plays, creating shots, putting pressure on the defense, while Exum stands at the three point line and swings the ball around the perimeter. He doesn't compete on offense. He's a *****. He's soft. Again the excuse is that he's 19. Any 19 year old worth his **** since 19 year olds started playing in the NBA actually plays on the offensive end. Exum is garbage and an embarrassment. Quin Snyder wants to play him, wants him in the game and getting experience, and despite the fact that Trey Burke effing sucks, Snyder can't afford to keep Exum in the game in favor of Burke.

All of you jazzfanz who think Exum is a future star and a cornerstone of this franchise, I admire your optimism, but history shows even young guys simply are never this bad and turn in to great NBA players. Painful to watch.

/rant. Flame away.
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The excuse has nothing to do with age. He played HS ball in Australia. Almost everyone else has played against HS basketball competition (which is much better here than Australia), Most played AAU ball which is the best of the best in the US, then had a year of CBB (at least the last 10 years). There's also that his body isn't ready for the NBA. Not all 19 year olds are created equal. Lebron at 19 looked 25, Exum looks 16. Finally, he now has probably played twice as many games as he ever has in one year, oh, and he just moved to a new county on his own from his parents house. Give the guy a break.

Fans need to stop evaluating Exum completely for the next 2 years, its worthless. He probably should be sent down to the D league for a few weeks and be told "Be aggressive, make mistakes, turn the ball over, try to take over the game. Drive to the basket 10-15 times a game and get to the foul line." Right now he's trying to not lose games by himself and just staying out of the way. I for one can't fault him for that.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Hantlers, reading is fundamental. Please show me where I said Exum was bad defensively. in fact, I said the opposite. Hard to have a discussion with people who can't read. Oh well.
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Sorry, you said he's solid, and then pointed to steals. He's an above-average defender for a 19 year old PG. Let's of course ignore that PG is the most stacked position in the league, especially in the West Conference, and then get pissed when a 19 year old who hadn't faced much for competition is struggling his first year in a foreign country. Those variables don't matter at all.

Hell, if you would've paid attention at all you should've known that nobody expected anything from Exum this year. He got thrown into a crappy situation, on a team that has virtually no veteran leadership and a first time coach. And you didn't think he would struggle?! It's just too bad we didn't draft Randle instead, right?
 
Hantlers said:
Sorry, you said he's solid, and then pointed to steals. He's an above-average defender for a 19 year old PG. Let's of course ignore that PG is the most stacked position in the league, especially in the West Conference, and then get pissed when a 19 year old who hadn't faced much for competition is struggling his first year in a foreign country. Those variables don't matter at all.

Hell, if you would've paid attention at all you should've known that nobody expected anything from Exum this year. He got thrown into a crappy situation, on a team that has virtually no veteran leadership and a first time coach. And you didn't think he would struggle?! It's just too bad we didn't draft Randle instead, right?
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Forgive me for expecting him to compete. For expecting him to try to attack people. Again, I'm not expecting anything good. I don't have a problem if he sucks. I just want to see a guy go out and try to make plays. He is a good defensive player, surprisingly good. I pointed to steals because it speaks to my frustration with him - just so passive, unwilling to make things happen. Soft. My bar is set really low for him - I expected him to suck. I didn't expect him to have a stretch where he would play 20 games, 450+ minutes without getting to the FT line. That is just scary pathetic.
 
He's a 19 year old playing against the best competition in the world after playing against Australian high schoolers, and he's living in a new country far apart from every support system he's known. So yeah, I think it's expected for him to be a bit timid.
 
Hantlers said:
Hell, if you would've paid attention at all you should've known that nobody expected anything from Exum this year.
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You expected that he would just stand on the court (on offense, anyway) and do nothing? I expected that he would make a ton of mistakes and occasionally make brilliant plays, like every other young player in the NBA that ever turned out to be anything. Instead, he just does... nothing.
 
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