Gamethread

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Philly doesnt come back.... burks doesnt either.

Again, i might agree with you if burks wasnt yanked immediately after a turnover..... as in burks turns it over and instantly i see corbin get frustrated on the sideline and signal for a sub

You understand when a TO happens a deadball situation occurs and subs happen? I mean, you honestly think it was Corbin going "God damn Burks turning it over. Get up Jefferson"? I just don't see that. I thought the sub was odd and I would have probably just ridden Burks, but I understand wanting to give a player rest.

 

[Stifle Tower]

paul george last 5 games shooting 34%

Gordon Hayward last 5 games = 30%. Your point?


Paul George for the season: 44%/37%. Every player has a few games they play poorly. It's been just the opposite for Hayward. There are just very short stretches when he's played well. Only one time has his FG% been over 40% for 4 consecutive games. A couple of 3-game streaks. Far more common are games in the 20% or 30% range. He's approaching CJ Miles territory this season.

The most embarrassing part? This wasn't his worst game of the season. He had a 1-17 performance against New Orleans. Too bad he's not eligible to be sent to the D-League for a few games.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also from day one i always heard things from practice about how no one on the jazz could stay in front of him..... then in summer league each year he would dominate...... then each year in pre season he would play really well...... then the season would start and he would get dnp's in favor of below average players

Obviously no one can know the best path at the end of the day unless we can set up alternate universes and compare results. I think this path is the best for the type of player Burks was. He was a one-on-one guy who needed to learn how to play team basketball. Corbin was probably extra tough on him, as he has been on all of the young guys, but I truly believe it will help them in the long run.

Even look at a player like Harden, people constantly rail on his lack of defense. Maybe if his defense effected his minutes early in his career, instead of just being able to score, he would have grown to be a better defender? Who knows?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Gordon Hayward last 5 games = 30%. Your point?


Paul George for the season: 44%/37%. Every player has a few games they play poorly. It's been just the opposite for Hayward. There was just a short stretch when he played well. He's approaching CJ Miles territory this season.

In FG% shooting yes. What are his other numbers? Whats his defense like?

He is our best play-maker for others by a mile. He is a great player. He will get his shot back. Just needs a damn haircut.

 

[fishonjazz]

You understand when a TO happens a deadball situation occurs and subs happen? I mean, you honestly think it was Corbin going "God damn Burks turning it over. Get up Jefferson"? I just don't see that. I thought the sub was odd and I would have probably just ridden Burks, but I understand wanting to give a player rest.

You didnt read my post.
He made the signal to remove burks when the turnover happened...... burks didnt come out until the next dead ball because corbin didnt decide to sub until the burks turnover

 

[Doublea]

Obviously no one can know the best path at the end of the day unless we can set up alternate universes and compare results. I think this path is the best for the type of player Burks was. He was a one-on-one guy who needed to learn how to play team basketball. Corbin was probably extra tough on him, as he has been on all of the young guys, but I truly believe it will help them in the long run.

Even look at a player like Harden, people constantly rail on his lack of defense. Maybe if his defense effected his minutes early in his career, instead of just being able to score, he would have grown to be a better defender? Who knows?

If you look at it too, it's pretty much the same way Sloan brought young guys a long. They would be on the bench, minutes would slowly increase till about 3-4th year then have a starting role. Much like Deron, and Hayward last year. I'm just hoping Burks gets moved into the starting line up soon like Hayward.

 

[fishonjazz]

I mean, you honestly think it was Corbin going "God damn Burks turning it over. Get up Jefferson"?

Also i have seen this many times when it involves burks or kanter.
Maybe since you dont live in utah so you cant watch all the games or something but i have watched every game this year except the loss to the clippers recently and i have seen corbin yank burks and kanter strictly due to mistakes quite often

 

[jope]

Gordon Hayward last 5 games = 30%. Your point?


Paul George for the season: 44%/37%. Every player has a few games they play poorly. It's been just the opposite for Hayward. There was just a short stretch when he played well. He's approaching CJ Miles territory this season.

I guess that was my point too, that every player has poor stretches, gordons just seems to go on and on and
this is true, well with the shooting anyway. however he's averaging ~ 6 rebs and ~ 6 asts over the last 5 too. cj will never sniff that.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You didnt read my post.
He made the signal to remove burks when the turnover happened...... burks didnt come out until the next dead ball because corbin didnt decide to sub until the burks turnover

He may have been planning on calling a TO to sub him out, he may have just gotten the idea to do it. Corbin isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, so it wouldn't surprise me if he just thought of it on the fly like "Damn, I can make a sub now".

Why would he put him back in if he point was to punish for a mistake? Not saying I'm right or your wrong for sure, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to Corbin on this one.

 

[fishonjazz]

Obviously no one can know the best path at the end of the day unless we can set up alternate universes and compare results. I think this path is the best for the type of player Burks was. He was a one-on-one guy who needed to learn how to play team basketball. Corbin was probably extra tough on him, as he has been on all of the young guys, but I truly believe it will help them in the long run.

Even look at a player like Harden, people constantly rail on his lack of defense. Maybe if his defense effected his minutes early in his career, instead of just being able to score, he would have grown to be a better defender? Who knows?

Maybe, and i dont disagree with this but if burks sucked right now i guarantee no one would be blaming corbin.... everyone would be saying "see, thats why burks never got to play much."
Since he is playing well corbin get the credit

But even you have to admit that burks was better than raja bell and im pretty sure you think burks to be a better all around player than foye even if you wont admit it.

If rush was 100% healthy to start the year then i dont think alec would have played much this season

 

[Bawse Dawg]

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to Corbin on this one.

Yea, he's earned that.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Stupid Ty!! 6ers had the game tied, and momentum. Ty puts in Burks and everything goes to hell!

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also i have seen this many times when it involves burks or kanter.
Maybe since you dont live in utah so you cant watch all the games or something but i have watched every game this year except the loss to the clippers recently and i have seen corbin yank burks and kanter strictly due to mistakes quite often

I watch every game son.

Kanter gets yanked because he makes huge mistakes that affect the whole team, as in horrible rotations and huge mental gaps on defense/offense. No question as to why Kanter has a hard time getting PT at times. I seriously don't understand this. Kanter is so bad it hurts other players development at times. He has gotten better lately though and it has became much less frequent.

Burks is different. He has been seeing an increase in minutes each month though. He was getting 30 mpg in January, which is what I think is perfect for him. The bad thing about Burks is that Jefferson having a really good shooting game can cut into his minutes. Burks usually gets more minutes, but if their a combo of a bad Burks night and a good Jefferson night, Jefferson will get closing minutes. Just the way it is and I can't really blame Corbin for going with the hot hand from deep in a situation where he wants to win. I don't think Burks gets the 1-mistake treatment anymore. He still gets minutes cut for terrible games though and isn't allowed unlimited leeway to work through them on an individual basis.

 

[fishonjazz]

He may have been planning on calling a TO to sub him out, he may have just gotten the idea to do it. Corbin isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, so it wouldn't surprise me if he just thought of it on the fly like "Damn, I can make a sub now".

Why would he put him back in if he point was to punish for a mistake? Not saying I'm right or your wrong for sure, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to Corbin on this one.

Pretty big benefit of the doubt.

Like i said before, most games this year burks starts and finishes the 4th quarter but tonight he suddenly needs rest? I know you say its cause of a back to back but i always watch burks very closely (since he is my favorite player) and he was fresh to death with no need for rest.

I think corbin benched burks for a mistake (like he is prone to do) and then realized he was going to lose the game and put burks back in out of desperation

 

[fishonjazz]

I watch every game son.

Kanter gets yanked because he makes huge mistakes that affect the whole team, as in horrible rotations and huge mental gaps on defense/offense. No question as to why Kanter has a hard time getting PT at times. I seriously don't understand this. Kanter is so bad it hurts other players development at times. He has gotten better lately though and it has became much less frequent.

Burks is different. He has been seeing an increase in minutes each month though. He was getting 30 mpg in January, which is what I think is perfect for him. The bad thing about Burks is that Jefferson having a really good shooting game can cut into his minutes. Burks usually gets more minutes, but if their a combo of a bad Burks night and a good Jefferson night, Jefferson will get closing minutes. Just the way it is and I can't really blame Corbin for going with the hot hand from deep in a situation where he wants to win. I don't think Burks gets the 1-mistake treatment anymore. He still gets minutes cut for terrible games though and isn't allowed unlimited leeway to work through them on an individual basis.

Solid post.
Agree about kanter.

I still think that vets are corbins security blanket when he sees burks make a mental error and thats what happened tonight.
Im just surprised he went back to burks at all.... he is learning finally i guess
It usually takes corbin a long time to learn things though its ok.

Good job corbin

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Maybe, and i dont disagree with this but if burks sucked right now i guarantee no one would be blaming corbin.... everyone would be saying "see, thats why burks never got to play much."
Since he is playing well corbin get the credit

But even you have to admit that burks was better than raja bell and im pretty sure you think burks to be a better all around player than foye even if you wont admit it.

If rush was 100% healthy to start the year then i dont think alec would have played much this season

Better?

He had a lot more talent and more ability to score. Yes.

He was also made a lot of mental mistakes that coaches don't like. Corbin went with Bell's veteran know-how over Burks.

Foye was clearly a terrible defender, probably worse than Burks, but he didn't make mental defense errors like Burks did. He was also a key to the floor-spacing.

It comes down to coaches trusting a player. Clearly Corbin didn't really trust Burks to consistently make the corrects plays and decisions. Did he ever lose Burks though? No, that's a credit to both parties patience. It's paying off now and we are seeing Burks display a pretty good all-around game. Really think if Burks was given the hands off approach you see a worse version of the player currently balling out.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Solid post.
Agree about kanter.

I still think that vets are corbins security blanket when he sees burks make a mental error and thats what happened tonight.
Im just surprised he went back to burks at all.... he is learning finally i guess
It usually takes corbin a long time to learn things though its ok.

Good job corbin

From what I can tell, this is true of 80% of the coaches in the NBA.

 

[Jeffrey32]

Didnt see the game... What happened to Favors that he only played 5 minutes?

 

[fishonjazz]

Better?

He had a lot more talent and more ability to score. Yes.

He was also made a lot of mental mistakes that coaches don't like. Corbin went with Bell's veteran know-how over Burks.

Foye was clearly a terrible defender, probably worse than Burks, but he didn't make mental defense errors like Burks did. He was also a key to the floor-spacing.

It comes down to coaches trusting a player. Clearly Corbin didn't really trust Burks to consistently make the corrects plays and decisions. Did he ever lose Burks though? No, that's a credit to both parties patience. It's paying off now and we are seeing Burks display a pretty good all-around game. Really think if Burks was given the hands off approach you see a worse version of the player currently balling out.

i remember reading an article saying that bell was one of the worst players in the entire league that year.... including bench players.
Yes burks was the better PLAYER than bell not just scorer.

Raja was atrocious

 

[Stifle Tower]

In FG% shooting yes. What are his other numbers? Whats his defense like?

He is our best play-maker for others by a mile. He is a great player. He will get his shot back. Just needs a damn haircut.

This is kind of like the Boozer conundrum in reverse. Carlos was an incredible scorer but did nothing else. Hayward gets a few assists, but 2/3's of his shots don't go in. What is the success rate of getting an offensive board? Not very high. So take that 10% difference in shooting % and add it to his TO% because that's essentially what it is. Hayward shoots, misses, and the ball is going back the other way.