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Gay Nightclub mass shooting -- Orlando, Florida

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 848
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fishonjazz said:
Bern fostered a culture of hate towards bern I this very thread. Seems hypocritical to me.
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fishonjazz said:
Well Jim less is showing tons of hate to people who think like bern. Therefore creating a culture of hate for people who think like bern (christians).

So if someone shoots up a church then that means jim les contributed to that shooting right?
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Why are these posts directed at me? Did I comment on the way JimLes expressed himself? Do you have an issue with the actual content of my posts?
 
https://www.csdp.org/edcs/page24.htm

Rationale: Violence itself can be successfully dealt with as a public health problem. It is important to consider the fact that most “drug-related” violence is actually drug trade related. In an analysis of New York City's homicides in 1988, Paul Goldstein and his colleagues concluded that 74 percent of drug-related homicides were related to the black market drug trade and not drug use. For instance, the leading crack-related homicide cause was shown to be territorial disputes between rival dealers, and not crack-induced violence or violence (predatory thieving) to obtain money for crack purchases.64

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TroutBum said:
I spent the hour teaching my Sundayschool class yesterday about tolerance, love, and respect for our brothers and sisters (We Mo's sometimes forget that we fought hand in hand, as brothers and sisters, against evil, in the preexistance). Judging others is thankfully not up to us, and that we have the easier job of simply loving one another. In short, life is too short and precious to waste time hating (with the exception of The Lakers and DuhBron), so stop being dicks.

I'll probably be asked to not teach anymore. *fingers crossed*
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You gave a Sunday School lesson on tolerance? Wow.
 
fishonjazz said:
Well Jim less is showing tons of hate to people who think like bern. Therefore creating a culture of hate for people who think like bern (christians).
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This has nothing to do with being Christian and everything to do with being a hypocrite and an idiot in general. I'll remind you once again, that we're talking about a post wherein someone said "Look, I don't like gays either, but I wouldn't go as far as killing them."

And I know you know better than to compare hypothetical violence towards Christians with the very real violence that happened in Orlando. And happens all the time to LGBTQ+ people.
 
stitches said:
There are a couple of serious difference though. Namely - radical Islamists don't operate only on US soil and their victims in Muslim majority countries are much more numerous AND second which is even more important, there is a difference in the stated goals and intentions - the killers in Chicago don't want to spread their vicious version of Islam throughout the world and don't want to kill as many non-Muslims or not-pure-enough Muslims through any means possible.

Don't get me wrong, gun violence and gang violence is a very serious problem that needs to be tackled with utmost seriousness, but the Chicago killers are not looking to maximize their indiscriminate killing count and are not looking to acquire weapons of mass destruction, while if Al Qaeda or ISIS had a nuclear bomb, do you think they'd hesitate to use it on highly populated area with civilians?

That's the biggest difference and that's the reason it should be taken VERY seriously even if the victim count doesn't currently rise to levels of other domestic threats. Where they have most control, there are daily mass killings and executions of innocent people, and if they are not challenged and fought, this cancer will spread and sooner or later they will find a way to acquire even worse weapons and use them against even more people.
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They are being challenged and fought, by other muslims. We should support those efforts but we should not go further than that. The US cannot hope to win a Muslim civil war. Isis is losing. They are being defeated by other Muslims, the Shiite Iraqi's in the southeast, the Kurds in the Northeast, and the Sunni Arab SDF from the northwest. When they accomplish the destruction of ISIS, which they will, it will be a Muslim victory a Muslim repudiation of what Isis stands for. We could go in there and topple Raqqah in the time it took us to drive there but we will not have defeated Isis.

In the mean time we really don't need to panic about Muslims or Isis. You're still much more likely to be killed by a family member than a radical islamist. We're all actually pretty damn safe.
 
♪alt13 said:
They are being challenged and fought, by other muslims. We should support those efforts but we should not go further than that. The US cannot hope to win a Muslim civil war. Isis is losing. They are being defeated by other Muslims, the Shiite Iraqi's in the southeast, the Kurds in the Northeast, and the Sunni Arab SDF from the northwest. When they accomplish the destruction of ISIS, which they will, it will be a Muslim victory a Muslim repudiation of what Isis stands for. We could go in there and topple Raqqah in the time it took us to drive there but we will not have defeated Isis.

In the mean time we really don't need to panic about Muslims or Isis. You're still much more likely to be killed by a family member than a radical islamist. We're all actually pretty damn safe.
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Relatively safe. Why would any American argue for such a notion just cause other places in the world are crap pots? I want safety everywhere including at home first and foremost.
 
Boris said:
Relatively safe. Why would any American argue for such a notion just cause other places in the world are crap pots? I want safety everywhere including at home first and foremost.
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Then sell your car and keep a close eye on your brother in law. You'll be crazy safe.
 
Boris said:
Thank you so much for this. My question is why does Curan grant virgins apparently to be sexual icons only to worthy males? Women do not matter? Do they get 72 virgin men as well? This seems so demeaning to women and was one of the reasons I became atheist.
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Here is how it is written iirc; "and there is a place for the believers in Heaven in which they live for eternal happiness on comfy couches with their life mates and there is everthing they demand to them and a 'selam' (a holy greeting) from their Lord"

Not the exact words but same meaning.
 
♪alt13 said:
They are being challenged and fought, by other muslims. We should support those efforts but we should not go further than that. The US cannot hope to win a Muslim civil war. Isis is losing. They are being defeated by other Muslims, the Shiite Iraqi's in the southeast, the Kurds in the Northeast, and the Sunni Arab SDF from the northwest. When they accomplish the destruction of ISIS, which they will, it will be a Muslim victory a Muslim repudiation of what Isis stands for. We could go in there and topple Raqqah in the time it took us to drive there but we will not have defeated Isis.

In the mean time we really don't need to panic about Muslims or Isis. You're still much more likely to be killed by a family member than a radical islamist. We're all actually pretty damn safe.
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I generally agree with the bolded part but the situation is very muddled with most of those groups fighting ISIS(as in you, assume that most of those groups have much different views than ISIS, when the difference is probably much more marginal. In general I have the greatest trust in the Kurds, because they seem most sold on establishing a secular democracy of sorts and they've been neglected by the international community for ages without ever getting their own state). The US has been supporting different rebel groups for decades against its enemies in the Middle East, only to witness them turn against the west later on or to turn into genocidal maniacs against their own people when they take control in their respective territories. That's why I think fighting the ideology is as important as physical resistance. And for that we need to support more Muslim reformers, who are currently being threatened and killed on the streets in multiple countries(not even talking about ISIS here).

About your last paragraph - I'm not too worried about my or the world's safety at the moment, but I can see long-term problems persisting if the ideology of Islamism is not defeated and marginalized among Muslim majority communities world wide - because today you are going to defeat ISIS, like you defeated Al Qaeda yesterday, but then some other group espousing the same ideas would spring up tomorrow and cause possibly even more harm.
 
addictionary said:
Here is how it is written iirc; "and there is a place for the believers in Heaven in which they live for eternal happiness on comfy couches with their life mates and there is everthing they demand to them and a 'selam' (a holy greeting) from their Lord"

Not the exact words but same meaning.
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It says 72 virgins with round or plump breasts based on the interpretation. For women it says "This number is only for men. A woman will have only one husband in Paradise, and she will be satisfied with him and will not need any more than that. The Muslim woman – who is not influenced by the claims of those who propagate permissiveness and knows that she is not like men in her make-up and nature, because Allaah has made her like that – does not object to the rulings of Allaah or feel angry. Rather she accepts what Allaah has decreed for her. Her sound nature tells her that she cannot live with more than one man at a time. So long as she has entered Paradise, she will have all that she desires, so she should not dispute now about the delights and rewards that her Lord has chosen for her, for your Lord does not treat anyone unjustly.", Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Jibreen, "The female martyr and the male martyr’s reward of seventy-two"

This is where male Islam jihad derived from.
 
Boris said:
It says 72 virgins with round or plump breasts based on the interpretation. For women it says "This number is only for men. A woman will have only one husband in Paradise, and she will be satisfied with him and will not need any more than that. The Muslim woman – who is not influenced by the claims of those who propagate permissiveness and knows that she is not like men in her make-up and nature, because Allaah has made her like that – does not object to the rulings of Allaah or feel angry. Rather she accepts what Allaah has decreed for her. Her sound nature tells her that she cannot live with more than one man at a time. So long as she has entered Paradise, she will have all that she desires, so she should not dispute now about the delights and rewards that her Lord has chosen for her, for your Lord does not treat anyone unjustly.", Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Jibreen, "The female martyr and the male martyr’s reward of seventy-two"

This is where male Islam jihad derived from.
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Holy books need to be read more rationally and the translation is important. According to Christoph Luxenberg's the Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Qoran (have not read it just a quote), the term virgin is falsely translated and it actually means the types of fresh fruits and adibles in Heaven. But also the so called 72 virgin deal is from a hadith which is basically scholars saying stuff and generations of time passing and them becoming God knows what.
 
addictionary said:
Holy books need to be read more rationally and the translation is important. According to Christoph Luxenberg's the Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Qoran (have not read it just a quote), the term virgin is falsely translated and it actually means the types of fresh fruits and adibles in Heaven. But also the so called 72 virgin deal is from a hadith which is basically scholars saying stuff and generations of time passing and them becoming God knows what.
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Interesting that you bring up a scholar who claims the Q'uran was written 150 years after Mohammed death just like how the Bible was composed 150 years later. Maybe there is an spiritual value to 1 5 o
 
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