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Go GET Teague

Willie G. said:
For me, history has clearly shown that Kanter never got "screwed" in Utah. And stats showed it at the time, too. He barely earned the minutes he played. You can't be that kind of liability on defense and such a black hole on offense and still command minutes. I think Utah really stuck by him, and earnestly tried to help him develop a more well-rounded game.
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Exactly.
I was simply saying that Marvin never screwed burks
 
fishonjazz said:
Exactly.
I was simply saying that Marvin never screwed burks
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ok. cool.

Those were some seriously polarizing days for jazz fans, I think. I like how they're becoming a distant memory.

I think I understand what Kevin O'Connor was trying to do with the vets; I think he was trying to sort of re-brand the notion of coming to Utah as a free agent, which would have been a nice swan song to a good career; a good legacy move. It didn't really work out, obviously.... but I think somebody else (Lindsey?) is going to have to try to turn those same tides again....... at some point.

Just some random thoughts
 
fishonjazz said:
I was more upset at the raja bell, richard Jefferson, and josh Howard signings.
Those were old, washed up hired guns. Way different than getting teague.

People didn't complain much about the Randy foye hiring and him playing ahead of Burks cause foye was actually good and still pretty young (like teague)


Plus allot of us were sick of the same team and same result every year and wanted change. We are not sick of this team right now
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We were in a different life cycle at that time too... everyone could see we needed to unload guys like that and tank but instead we clung to hanging around the middle and slowing down the young guys. We are coming up now so I don't mind us asking the young guys to take a little bit of a back seat.

To me if have a good opportunity to upgrade at the point guard for a good value you do it. We are playing Booker ahead of Lyles right now and then say we don't want anyone here to block Dante's development even though they might help us now? Seems inconsistent to me.
 
So looking around the league... if the Hawks are hell bent on trading Teague (which I don't think they are) we are really the only place it makes much sense. NY doesn't have much to offer and Milwaukee is now basically toast. Dallas might be interested, but again what are they offering? We are in a good position to say here is the deal take it or leave it and know they won't get a much better offer.

If I am Atlanta I likely leave it, but their GM is the coach and who knows how enamored he is with Teague. The more I look at the situation the less I want to offer.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
We were in a different life cycle at that time too... everyone could see we needed to unload guys like that and tank but instead we clung to hanging around the middle and slowing down the young guys. We are coming up now so I don't mind us asking the young guys to take a little bit of a back seat.
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Couldn't have said it better myself.

Corbin jazz vs current jazz strategies are apples to oranges.
 
GVC said:
Teague isn't expiring this summer, and hasn't requested a trade publicly. Further, Atlanta doesn't have such a robust wing rotation that they can't experiment more with Teague and Schroeder sharing the court a little more. While the Jazz waited far too long to move Kanter, the Hawks have until at least the start of next season to move Teague. They aren't winning anything this season either way, and should be looking to get the best return possible.
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I think you are underestimating how badly Teague wants out and the problems Atlanta takes on by keeping him on the roster. Atlanta does not want to have the situation fester. Their bet is already on Schroeder, why lose development time while Teague takes minutes (e.g., Gobert). Every day Teague stays his trade value (currently low) drops further.
 
Chris Broussard on Jeff Teague: “Hes’s not being shopped but Atlanta is looking to see what interest is is out there.” – via ESPN.com


I know they were just looking around (...) hope it's not over.
 
Willie G. said:
For me, history has clearly shown that Kanter never got "screwed" in Utah. And stats showed it at the time, too. He barely earned the minutes he played. You can't be that kind of liability on defense and such a black hole on offense and still command minutes. I think Utah really stuck by him, and earnestly tried to help him develop a more well-rounded game.
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Nah... Jazz ****ed up with Kanter. Jefferson should've been traded in the 2012 offseason, or the trade deadline in 2013 at the latest.

Let's rewind for a second there. It was obvious Jefferson wasn't a championship piece, or even really a playoff piece by that time. Even if the argument was simply contract window and age. Furthermore and just as importantly, Favors and Kanter were playing at levels deserving of reward. The Jazz were so logjammed that they couldn't give Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, and Kanter the minutes they deserved. The Jazz also weren't that good, and their only bet was to bring along their young players the right way and see what players they already could still work. Millsap can play with anybody AND is a very good player, Jefferson causes all kinds of lineup issues with his inability to guard in space, provide spacing on offense, or hurt the other team with his passing ability, so it's an easy choice if they want to keep one and preserve the idea of not tanking. Furthermore, Jefferson is a slacker and a defeatist. Even though he was absolutely right about the Jazz not really having a chance after being down 3-0 to the Spurs, that's simply not how a leader talks. Very revealing as to his character.

Kanter shows up in 2012 in great shape, hustles hard, runs the floor, produces, and you can see noticeable improvement in every facet of his game. How was he rewarded? The same 10 minute rotation slot he had the year before. The same sub rotation regardless of his performance or the performance of those ahead of him on the depth chart. Kanter's psyche isn't made from granite, he is not true superstar material, but an INTELLIGENT operation knows that it's in their best interest to put those players in the best position to succeed. The Jazz ultimately ignored that, and they paid for it. Twice, actually, because they passed on Reggie Jackson because they didn't want to deal with it. Just like they didn't want to deal with Kanter. As much as anything you can say about this organization, you can say they don't want to deal with the human beings on their teams, at pretty much any cost. At least since the Deron trade.

FOR THE RECORD, I am obviously not excusing Kanter's behavior, but there was a window where I think he could've blossomed and the Jazz didn't give a ****. All for the sake of feeding Ty Corbin and Drunk Al. Holy ****.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Nah... Jazz ****ed up with Kanter. Jefferson should've been traded in the 2012 offseason, or the trade deadline in 2013 at the latest.

Let's rewind for a second there. It was obvious Jefferson wasn't a championship piece, or even really a playoff piece by that time. Even if the argument was simply contract window and age. Furthermore and just as importantly, Favors and Kanter were playing at levels deserving of reward. The Jazz were so logjammed that they couldn't give Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, and Kanter the minutes they deserved. The Jazz also weren't that good, and their only bet was to bring along their young players the right way and see what players they already could still work. Millsap can play with anybody AND is a very good player, Jefferson causes all kinds of lineup issues with his inability to guard in space, provide spacing on offense, or hurt the other team with his passing ability, so it's an easy choice if they want to keep one and preserve the idea of not tanking. Furthermore, Jefferson is a slacker and a defeatist. Even though he was absolutely right about the Jazz not really having a chance after being down 3-0 to the Spurs, that's simply not how a leader talks. Very revealing as to his character.

Kanter shows up in 2012 in great shape, hustles hard, runs the floor, produces, and you can see noticeable improvement in every facet of his game. How was he rewarded? The same 10 minute rotation slot he had the year before. The same sub rotation regardless of his performance or the performance of those ahead of him on the depth chart. Kanter's psyche isn't made from granite, he is not true superstar material, but an INTELLIGENT operation knows that it's in their best interest to put those players in the best position to succeed. The Jazz ultimately ignored that, and they paid for it. Twice, actually, because they passed on Reggie Jackson because they didn't want to deal with it. Just like they didn't want to deal with Kanter. As much as anything you can say about this organization, you can say they don't want to deal with the human beings on their teams, at pretty much any cost. At least since the Deron trade.

FOR THE RECORD, I am obviously not excusing Kanter's behavior, but there was a window where I think he could've blossomed and the Jazz didn't give a ****. All for the sake of feeding Ty Corbin and Drunk Al. Holy ****.
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Iawtp
 
jazzfan1132 said:
right, i'm interesing if Kanter R.Jackson trade was possible?
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There are a small handful of people that could convince me that wasn't the trade initially proposed (and they are all people at the very highest levels of their organizations), but that the Jazz passed. It made and makes no sense to involve Detroit. OKC traded Jackson for Kanter, we traded Kanter for some mozzarella sticks, jalapeno poppers, and chicken fingers.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Nah... Jazz ****ed up with Kanter. Jefferson should've been traded in the 2012 offseason, or the trade deadline in 2013 at the latest.

Let's rewind for a second there. It was obvious Jefferson wasn't a championship piece, or even really a playoff piece by that time. Even if the argument was simply contract window and age. Furthermore and just as importantly, Favors and Kanter were playing at levels deserving of reward. The Jazz were so logjammed that they couldn't give Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, and Kanter the minutes they deserved. The Jazz also weren't that good, and their only bet was to bring along their young players the right way and see what players they already could still work. Millsap can play with anybody AND is a very good player, Jefferson causes all kinds of lineup issues with his inability to guard in space, provide spacing on offense, or hurt the other team with his passing ability, so it's an easy choice if they want to keep one and preserve the idea of not tanking. Furthermore, Jefferson is a slacker and a defeatist. Even though he was absolutely right about the Jazz not really having a chance after being down 3-0 to the Spurs, that's simply not how a leader talks. Very revealing as to his character.

Kanter shows up in 2012 in great shape, hustles hard, runs the floor, produces, and you can see noticeable improvement in every facet of his game. How was he rewarded? The same 10 minute rotation slot he had the year before. The same sub rotation regardless of his performance or the performance of those ahead of him on the depth chart. Kanter's psyche isn't made from granite, he is not true superstar material, but an INTELLIGENT operation knows that it's in their best interest to put those players in the best position to succeed. The Jazz ultimately ignored that, and they paid for it. Twice, actually, because they passed on Reggie Jackson because they didn't want to deal with it. Just like they didn't want to deal with Kanter. As much as anything you can say about this organization, you can say they don't want to deal with the human beings on their teams, at pretty much any cost. At least since the Deron trade.

FOR THE RECORD, I am obviously not excusing Kanter's behavior, but there was a window where I think he could've blossomed and the Jazz didn't give a ****. All for the sake of feeding Ty Corbin and Drunk Al. Holy ****.
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Let us never speak of the Croban era Jazz again. So obvious what needed to be done and we instead kicked the can down the road for the sake of mediocrity.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Nah... Jazz ****ed up with Kanter. Jefferson should've been traded in the 2012 offseason, or the trade deadline in 2013 at the latest.

Let's rewind for a second there. It was obvious Jefferson wasn't a championship piece, or even really a playoff piece by that time. Even if the argument was simply contract window and age. Furthermore and just as importantly, Favors and Kanter were playing at levels deserving of reward. The Jazz were so logjammed that they couldn't give Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, and Kanter the minutes they deserved. The Jazz also weren't that good, and their only bet was to bring along their young players the right way and see what players they already could still work. Millsap can play with anybody AND is a very good player, Jefferson causes all kinds of lineup issues with his inability to guard in space, provide spacing on offense, or hurt the other team with his passing ability, so it's an easy choice if they want to keep one and preserve the idea of not tanking. Furthermore, Jefferson is a slacker and a defeatist. Even though he was absolutely right about the Jazz not really having a chance after being down 3-0 to the Spurs, that's simply not how a leader talks. Very revealing as to his character.

Kanter shows up in 2012 in great shape, hustles hard, runs the floor, produces, and you can see noticeable improvement in every facet of his game. How was he rewarded? The same 10 minute rotation slot he had the year before. The same sub rotation regardless of his performance or the performance of those ahead of him on the depth chart. Kanter's psyche isn't made from granite, he is not true superstar material, but an INTELLIGENT operation knows that it's in their best interest to put those players in the best position to succeed. The Jazz ultimately ignored that, and they paid for it. Twice, actually, because they passed on Reggie Jackson because they didn't want to deal with it. Just like they didn't want to deal with Kanter. As much as anything you can say about this organization, you can say they don't want to deal with the human beings on their teams, at pretty much any cost. At least since the Deron trade.

FOR THE RECORD, I am obviously not excusing Kanter's behavior, but there was a window where I think he could've blossomed and the Jazz didn't give a ****. All for the sake of feeding Ty Corbin and Drunk Al. Holy ****.
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Jefferson was a hail mary pass that stayed in the air way too long...... and somehow didn't even make it near the red zone. It seems that we probably agree that he's the primary character in a story of mismanagement. A complicated story happening in the midst of one of the largest transitions ever, in terms of the power structure of the Jazz organization. I can't even watch Jazz v. Hornets games featuring Jefferson. I was so sick of it.

And I agree that Kanter should have received more minutes in '12-'13.

That said, he wouldn't have helped us win ballgames, and I get the distinct impression that we would have ended up in pretty much the same position: sucking, and not wanting to pay him that next contract. It's also worth noting that our W-L record is very distantly related to the process by which we acquired Rudy Gobert, so, by extension, one can claim that 'Kanter's logjam' was his fate here, going forward and backward. Players with his current contract size should find ways of rising through logjams. Offense-only-blackholes find that emergence much harder. I think it's fair to say that Kanter had his chances, and that he had severely dumb expectations that he deserved more than he was given.

But, yeah, to hell with the Jefferson era and its memory.

Good riddance to Kanter as well. I wish we hadn't totally blown a 3rd pick, but I guess that stuff happens.
 
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For the record my main desire to sign Teague isn't even for the wins-- it's mainly to persuade Hayward to hang around.


We really, really can't afford to lose him like we were losing DWill.
 
dalamon said:
For the record my main desire to sign Teague isn't even for the wins-- it's mainly to persuade Hayward to hang around.


We really, really can't afford to lose him like we were losing DWill.
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I can't see the risk of Hayward bolting anywhere near what was happening with DWill tho ??
 
spycam1 said:
And they'll get a better return if they trade him now, not next season. The waiting game is not going to help them.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
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If that's the case then 29 other GM's realize this and will play the waiting game.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Nah... Jazz ****ed up with Kanter. Jefferson should've been traded in the 2012 offseason, or the trade deadline in 2013 at the latest.

Let's rewind for a second there. It was obvious Jefferson wasn't a championship piece, or even really a playoff piece by that time. Even if the argument was simply contract window and age. Furthermore and just as importantly, Favors and Kanter were playing at levels deserving of reward. The Jazz were so logjammed that they couldn't give Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, and Kanter the minutes they deserved. The Jazz also weren't that good, and their only bet was to bring along their young players the right way and see what players they already could still work. Millsap can play with anybody AND is a very good player, Jefferson causes all kinds of lineup issues with his inability to guard in space, provide spacing on offense, or hurt the other team with his passing ability, so it's an easy choice if they want to keep one and preserve the idea of not tanking. Furthermore, Jefferson is a slacker and a defeatist. Even though he was absolutely right about the Jazz not really having a chance after being down 3-0 to the Spurs, that's simply not how a leader talks. Very revealing as to his character.

Kanter shows up in 2012 in great shape, hustles hard, runs the floor, produces, and you can see noticeable improvement in every facet of his game. How was he rewarded? The same 10 minute rotation slot he had the year before. The same sub rotation regardless of his performance or the performance of those ahead of him on the depth chart. Kanter's psyche isn't made from granite, he is not true superstar material, but an INTELLIGENT operation knows that it's in their best interest to put those players in the best position to succeed. The Jazz ultimately ignored that, and they paid for it. Twice, actually, because they passed on Reggie Jackson because they didn't want to deal with it. Just like they didn't want to deal with Kanter. As much as anything you can say about this organization, you can say they don't want to deal with the human beings on their teams, at pretty much any cost. At least since the Deron trade.

FOR THE RECORD, I am obviously not excusing Kanter's behavior, but there was a window where I think he could've blossomed and the Jazz didn't give a ****. All for the sake of feeding Ty Corbin and Drunk Al. Holy ****.
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Eh...he was only short changed in his second year. He got what he deserved minute wise every other year. 27 minutes a game his last two years here. He was a lazy, low IQ, immature player. He is getting all of 20 minutes a game in OKC behind the talented juggernaut Steven Adams. If Durant and Westbrook walk, Kanter will become a tank commander for the ages for them.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Would you trade Hayward to Boston for the unprotected Nets pick right now?
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Nah. The only player in this draft I'm absolutely confident will be better than Hayward is Simmons, and he'll undoubtedly go #1, which the Nets' pick will only give us a slim chance of landing.

They'd have to give us more than just the pick. I'm sure Hayward could land us a better deal than one draft pick, even if it is top 5.

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