Gun Control vs School Shootings in Terms of Child Deaths

[Sardines]

None of those things exist just to kill. You can do other things with guns like target practice and whatnot but the reason they were created is to kill.

Cant say the same about anything you listed. There is the difference.

Yeah, cars. You can kill with them, or you can practice killing with them.

I often make a huge print of an armed robber, like 9 feet by 9 feet, and then I put it in the road and I drive my car through it at high speed. When the time comes I WILL BE READY!

 

[LogGrad98]

None of those things exist just to kill. You can do other things with guns like target practice and whatnot but the reason they were created is to kill.

Cant say the same about anything you listed. There is the difference.

Tobacco is one of the few things created and used by humans that directly kills the user through regular recommended use as intended by the manufacturer. Almost nothing else we condone to be produced and sold as a product has this effect.

Guns have multiple uses so it does not fit in this category.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I'm not going to pretend to have the answers on this subject, but one thing I would love to see more of a focus on is safe storage laws. The majority of states still do not have safe storage laws and this seems like something most reasonable people would be able to agree on.

Safe Storage of Firearms

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) is committed to protecting children from firearm-related injury and violence through safe storage of firearms guidance.

www.aap.org

 

[Mongoose]

You beta bitches are completely comfortable with the government or anyone besides you having every ounce of available power, is that right? You want someone else determining everything you are allowed to say, think, feel, and do?
You act like it’s a forgone conclusion the government could squash its own citizens if it wanted to and you’re okay with that. How do you become such beta cowards? How do you have no will to make decisions for yourself? Im not surprised because you all don’t seem to think for yourselves about anything else, but my goodness it’s cowardly and pathetic to see you all so eager to give away every right the constitution and bill of rights offers for citizens that have the desire and god given right to be free. You can go be beta bitch cowards in Canada or any other country on this planet if you don’t want free neighbors with rights.

 

[fishonjazz]

You beta bitches are completely comfortable with the government or anyone besides you having every ounce of available power, is that right? You want someone else determining everything you are allowed to say, think, feel, and do?
You act like it’s a forgone conclusion the government could squash its own citizens if it wanted to and you’re okay with that. How do you become such beta cowards? How do you have no will to make decisions for yourself? Im not surprised because you all don’t seem to think for yourselves about anything else, but my goodness it’s cowardly and pathetic to see you all so eager to give away every right the constitution and bill of rights offers for citizens that have the desire and god given right to be free. You can go be beta bitch cowards in Canada or any other country on this planet if you don’t want free neighbors with rights.

Lol.
That escalated quickly. You should probably just let the adults discuss this topic. Poor little fella

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[Sardines]

You beta bitches are completely comfortable with the government or anyone besides you having every ounce of available power, is that right? You want someone else determining everything you are allowed to say, think, feel, and do?
You act like it’s a forgone conclusion the government could squash its own citizens if it wanted to and you’re okay with that. How do you become such beta cowards? How do you have no will to make decisions for yourself? Im not surprised because you all don’t seem to think for yourselves about anything else, but my goodness it’s cowardly and pathetic to see you all so eager to give away every right the constitution and bill of rights offers for citizens that have the desire and god given right to be free. You can go be beta bitch cowards in Canada or any other country on this planet if you don’t want free neighbors with rights.

I have strong and I think non-mainstream opinions about some of the questions you raise here, and I would normally be very very interested in getting into it. But not with you.

 

[Mongoose]

I have strong and I think non-mainstream opinions about some of the questions you raise here, and I would normally be very very interested in getting into it. But not with you.

Beta coward

 

[fishonjazz]

None of those things exist just to kill. You can do other things with guns like target practice and whatnot but the reason they were created is to kill.

Cant say the same about anything you listed. There is the difference.

Another difference is that with most things he listed we are constantly trying to make them safer.

With guns it seems like as they evolve they only get deadlier.

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[fishonjazz]

Can they make it so a gun is inoperable without the fingerprint of the gun owner/buyer?

If so that could help. A bad guy steals a good guys gun and isn't even able to use it. Or a kid gets their hands on Dad's gun and can't shoot it.

Again, no idea if that is even a thing but maybe someday.
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[Sardines]

Can they make it so a gun is inoperable without the fingerprint of the gun owner/buyer?

If so that could help. A bad guy steals a good guys gun and isn't even able to use it. Or a kid gets their hands on Dad's gun and can't shoot it.

Again, no idea if that is even a thing but maybe someday.
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Pro-gun people are 1000% against this. It creates the possibility that when their home is invaded by people looking to steal their iPads and rape their women that the gun might not immediately obliterate human lives.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Can they make it so a gun is inoperable without the fingerprint of the gun owner/buyer?

If so that could help. A bad guy steals a good guys gun and isn't even able to use it. Or a kid gets their hands on Dad's gun and can't shoot it.

Again, no idea if that is even a thing but maybe someday.
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They have biometric trigger locks, but I've never seen a gun with the already built in feature. I honestly don't know how well they work.

Making guns less likely to be used by the wrong people (mostly talking about kids) seems like the place we should be focusing on and could mostly agree on right now.

 

[JimLes]

A bad guy steals a good guys gun and isn't even able to use it.

Remember that any kind of security system like that is one step behind the people trying to break it. I did not realized that one had to pay for video games(on a PC, to be clear) until I was 12. My father stole Dish Network for almost a decade(in Canada, no less).

Once a security system is out there, it's only a matter of time before someone breaks it.

 

[JimLes]

I was a couple of weeks short of my 16th birthday when the Columbine school shooting happened. It was an important event during my formative years. I remember all the hand-wringing and blame-seeking by seemingly everyone in the society. I remember spending the next day at school not actually having lessons, but just sitting around in class and talking about it. I remember the following school year, now-common active shooter measures being introduced at my school. A week after Columbine, a kid in a small town in my province close to the US border brought a gun to his high school and shot two kids. One died. His family established a small academic scholarship in his name and I got it a couple of times in university. I remember trying to make sense of it all. I also went to a rich, suburban high school and I remember thinking how it could've happened at my school. I still have what you might call a strange fascination about it. Every few years, I will read up on it. Again, trying to make sense of it all. Whenever a new school shooting happens, and boy do they happen often, I think back to 1999 and Columbine.

One thing that blows my mind every time I read about Columbine, as well as every time a new school shooting happens, is just how easy it was for the shooter(s) to obtain guns. It just seems crazy how that is probably the easiest part of the plan. It takes so much planning and effort to actually pull off a school shooting, and it's ridiculous how easy getting the weapons turns out to be. Every time. When you have failed attempts and when you have situations where shootings are prevented before they could happen, the weapons were almost always ready to go. Some other hitch or issue prevents the shooting.

If they're over the age of 18, these kids just go and buy guns. If they're not, they either easily take them from their parents, are gifted the guns by their parents, or they easily obtain them through someone else. Boggles the mind how is that is once you decided that yes, you're going to shoot up your school.

 

[Douchebag K]

it's hard to fathom the need for any society to have guns so freely available. Apart from the ones carried by police here i've literally only seen one gun up close in my entire life, that was on a cousin's farm growing up.

 

[LogGrad98]

it's hard to fathom the need for any society to have guns so freely available. Apart from the ones carried by police here i've literally only seen one gun up close in my entire life, that was on a cousin's farm growing up.

That's just it, the actual "need" was rendered moot a century ago. Now it's obsession bordering on religiosity.

 

[fishonjazz]

it's hard to fathom the need for any society to have guns so freely available. Apart from the ones carried by police here i've literally only seen one gun up close in my entire life, that was on a cousin's farm growing up.

I remember riding in the back seat of a friend's car in high school and I saw a gun sticking out from under the front seat and I picked it up and checked it out. The next week those friends of mine robbed a subway. (Restaurant)

Another time I was at a party and was chilling down in the basement and suddenly a gun was fired and the bullet came down through the ceiling and missed me by about 2 feet. Missed my best friend by inches. (There was a fight that had broke out upstairs in the kitchen and a dude drew his gun and accidentally fired it while pulling it from his pants)

Another time I was walking by myself and a car pulled up next to me and a dude stood up out of the sunroof and pointed a gun at me and said "caught you slippin". They saw how scared I was and just laughed and drove off.

Another time at a keg party there was a fight about to happen and my friend pulled out his gun and aimed at one of the other kids (had a red dot on his forehead from the laser on his gun). Luckily the other kids just ran and no shots were fired.

I knew a kid in Jr high who was shot right in the eyeball by a .22 and lost his eye.

I had friends over once when my parents were gone and we were all playing with guns downstairs. Dry firing them and stuff. One of the guns (a .22 with a scope we used for rabbit hunting) had a bullet in and one of us pulled the trigger. The bullet went through my older brothers window.

Another time when I was in Jr high my buddy took my bike and was riding it past my house and teasing me so I went inside and got my bb gun and have it like 20 pumps and put a spitwad in the barrel and can't out and shot it at him. Didn't realize there was a bb in there and it went into his ribcage. Had to pay his hospital fees so I got a job working for my neighbor cleaning carpets and windows to pay off my debt.

Another time while hunting I got hit with shotgun BB's that had bounced off the water when someone shot at a duck.

Also almost got shot while pheasant hunting.

Those are a few instances that happened all while I was a kid.

Quite frankly it's amazing there are not more kids killed by guns. We are surrounded by guns. They are everywhere.

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[Rubashov]

Ok, so let's just lay it out there. I posted a rant recently about gun control and school shootings and I thought it would be interesting to see where people stand, in our little forum at least.

The question is, AT WHAT COST IS IT WORTH IGNORING GUN VIOLENCE AND ENSURING THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS IS NOT INFRINGED IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM?

Or, what cost is worth maintaining our right to bear arms and keep all guns out there safely out of the hands of the government and firmly in the hands of hobbyist, militarist preppers, mentally ill people, and criminals. The stats show that in republican lead states gun laws tend to get looser after school shootings, and in democrat states they tend to get tighter. But obviously this is a tough nut to crack.

We are also, by far, the worst in the entire world for gun violence and particularly school shootings. The graphs I have seen are ridiculous.

School Shootings by Country 2025

worldpopulationreview.com

View attachment 17247

Total gun deaths we are similarly among the worst. In fact the only countries worse than use are due to significant gang and drug-related activies.

Gun Deaths by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

View attachment 17248

So let's just look at child deaths. Firearms are the #1 cause of child mortality in America. How about that?

Child and Teen Firearm Mortality in the U.S. and Peer Countries | KFF

Firearms were responsible for 20 percent of all child and teen deaths in the U.S. for both 2020 and 2021, compared to an average of less than 2 percent in similarly large and wealthy nations. This puts the U.S. far ahead of peer nations in child and teen firearm deaths.

www.kff.org

View attachment 17250


So, what is the cost we are willing to pay for virtually unfettered access to guns for pretty much everyone? Let's put it in terms of children killed per year, how about that? How many child deaths are you willing to accept annually to keep the right to keep and bear arms completely free and clear of any regulation, other than what is on the books right now, which has been proven to be all but completely ineffective?

This is not a place for "yeah, well, we can't do nothing about it anyway" or ******** excuses like that. No, this is simply about what your 2nd amendment right means to you, put in terms of child deaths. It is a more inflammatory and indirect way to look at willingness to accept stricter gun laws around protecting children specifically. If you have ideas how we can do that, please share. Also, I am making this anonymous so you can feel safe in expressing your opinion, but if you want, tell us why you voted how you did.

Couple of quick questions before I vote.

Are they American kids?

Are we talking about poor black and Latino kids or privileged white ones?

 

[fishonjazz]

Couple of quick questions before I vote.

Are they American kids?

Are we talking about poor black and Latino kids or privileged white ones?

Yes
Both/all

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[Rubashov]

I also think another thing that would help and doesn't have anything to do with guns or gun laws would be to change the culture.

Don't allow video games like call of duty and grand theft auto. Don't allow movies like John wick. Dont allow movies that glorify violence.

But we are talking about freedom of speech again so that's a no go.

Basically the freedoms we have (free speech, right to own guns) make it impossible to give us more freedom to not get killed by each other.

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Hey I love shooting Americans online, I like to bait them with a bit of smack talk, "murdered that ************ like a high school kid" is one of my favourites.

 

[Rubashov]

Remember that any kind of security system like that is one step behind the people trying to break it. I did not realized that one had to pay for video games(on a PC, to be clear) until I was 12. My father stole Dish Network for almost a decade(in Canada, no less).

Once a security system is out there, it's only a matter of time before someone breaks it.

Still it would stop kids accessing their parents guns and using them on themselves or others