Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
I still don't hold that against him. In fact, I'm glad he had the balls to take it. He missed it, but we still had the perfect opportunity to win that game. Unfortunately our team captain forgot his contacts.
Guys I'd rather have than Wesley Matthews
- Thread starter sirkickyass
- Start date
I still don't hold that against him. In fact, I'm glad he had the balls to take it. He missed it, but we still had the perfect opportunity to win that game. Unfortunately our team captain forgot his contacts.
mikenielsen
Well-Known Member
From ESPN Insider:
Notables still on the market....Adam Morrison...Sasha Pavlovic
Are you kidding me...Market is drying up...Jazz better move fast.
There's not much left.
Perhaps getting Brewer back and signing Shannon Brown would be a descent consolation for losing Mathews.
Craig Smith wouldn't be a bad pickup either as the backup PF.
Notables still on the market....Adam Morrison...Sasha Pavlovic
Are you kidding me...Market is drying up...Jazz better move fast.
There's not much left.
Perhaps getting Brewer back and signing Shannon Brown would be a descent consolation for losing Mathews.
Craig Smith wouldn't be a bad pickup either as the backup PF.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I would love Shannon Brown.
Hopper
Banned
Shannon Brown grew up with (he was a year younger than) Dee Brown, Deron's homey and former Jazzman. The two were "best friends" since grade school. Shannon played in the big ten, like Dee and Deron, for Tom Izzo at Michigan State. Deron got to be friends with him, through Dee, so again, yet another reason to favor him over a stranger.
That aside, Shannon Brown is a baller! Not sayin he could match Matthews all-around value, but....
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billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Between Matthews and Brown, I'd take Brown in a heartbeat. And I'm not even advocating Brown. Brown is a serious athlete. My problem with Brown based on what little I've seen is he's not that great of a basketball player to this point. Which is where I give Wes a huge edge. Wes is a great basketball player. But Wes is a great basketball player born into the wrong body. You really can't teach him anything. He is what he is. You can teach Shannon Brown. And if he gets it, you have a way better player than Wes could ever be.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Good list. Though I'd add Shannon Brown, who I think we need to consider, and Roger Mason, Jr. who has about the same exact size and stats as a Wes. I would consider most any of them in this order.
1) McGrady--Rip into me all you want but the guy can ball and if he can remain healthy, he's so far removed from success and he wouldn't be thee guy here, that there'd be virtually no pressure on him. For whatever reason, if he's healthy, I think he could thrive in this sort of underdog role. And if we want rings, we need studs. Maybe just maybe a 2 years, 11M offer needs to be considered. I'd roll the dice.
2) Roger Mason, Jr. His size and stats are nearly identical to Wes'. I think a 3 year, 9M offer is fair and he would be a real pro and fit in nicely behind Miles and AK, as 3rd or 4th wing, depending on Hayward's progress.
3) Shannon Brown: 3 years, 7M. We need to get more athletic. And he has that and playoff experience. He'd be a very solid combo guard.
4) Ronnie Brewer: 2 years, 5M. I don't want him long-term but if he's not getting any good offers, throw him a bone.
5) Q-Tip: He could be instant offense off the bench. As long as he knows he'd be a bench player, 2 years, 5M is no problem.
6) Tony Allen. 2 years, 4M.
7) Josh Howard: The guy seems to be a bit of a cancer. But as a last resort, if the other six guys have signed and he's the scraps left in front of us, I'd throw a two year, 8M offer at him, so long as he knows he's coming off the bench. Once AK walks next summer, he could slide into the starter's role or be the sixth man if Hayward's become the starter. At this price too, he could be a hell of a trade asset to some team needing his skills. In fact, based on that alone, I should probably put him much higher. Of all these guys, he has the most value probably as far as a trade is concerned. And let's say the Bucks want another scorer to put around Jennings and they offer their 2011 1st for Howard, you wouldn't take that? I know I would.
1) McGrady--Rip into me all you want but the guy can ball and if he can remain healthy, he's so far removed from success and he wouldn't be thee guy here, that there'd be virtually no pressure on him. For whatever reason, if he's healthy, I think he could thrive in this sort of underdog role. And if we want rings, we need studs. Maybe just maybe a 2 years, 11M offer needs to be considered. I'd roll the dice.
2) Roger Mason, Jr. His size and stats are nearly identical to Wes'. I think a 3 year, 9M offer is fair and he would be a real pro and fit in nicely behind Miles and AK, as 3rd or 4th wing, depending on Hayward's progress.
3) Shannon Brown: 3 years, 7M. We need to get more athletic. And he has that and playoff experience. He'd be a very solid combo guard.
4) Ronnie Brewer: 2 years, 5M. I don't want him long-term but if he's not getting any good offers, throw him a bone.
5) Q-Tip: He could be instant offense off the bench. As long as he knows he'd be a bench player, 2 years, 5M is no problem.
6) Tony Allen. 2 years, 4M.
7) Josh Howard: The guy seems to be a bit of a cancer. But as a last resort, if the other six guys have signed and he's the scraps left in front of us, I'd throw a two year, 8M offer at him, so long as he knows he's coming off the bench. Once AK walks next summer, he could slide into the starter's role or be the sixth man if Hayward's become the starter. At this price too, he could be a hell of a trade asset to some team needing his skills. In fact, based on that alone, I should probably put him much higher. Of all these guys, he has the most value probably as far as a trade is concerned. And let's say the Bucks want another scorer to put around Jennings and they offer their 2011 1st for Howard, you wouldn't take that? I know I would.
I'm not talking so much about any one shot in particular. Matthews was horrendous for the entirety of Game 3.
Dude went 2-11, 0-6 from three and sucked up a lot of shots that should have gone to a red hot Korver.
Kicky I agree with you that we can find a player that is comparable, but please not Luther Head. Houston fans hated him overall, and everytime I saw him he
did nothing but brick jump shots.
did nothing but brick jump shots.
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
I simply don't understand your logic that you can't teach a 2nd-year SG with work ethic and seeming smarts (Matthews) as much as a shorter fifth-year SG in Brown
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
He also took less than 7 shots/per. If the Jazz plan on keeping him at 25 mins/per and limiting his shots, then NO, you don't match the offer. However, if the offense becomes more diverse due to Boozer's departure, and you can up Matthews to 12-14 shots, then I say MATCH. Wesleey was at the TOP in terms of FG% by a SG, better than Allen, Johnson, Dwade, Crawford, etc.
And by all means, please base your analysis of a player on ONE playoff game. In that case, NO ONE deserves to play in the NBA.
Lebron, Kobe, Gasol, Allen, Pierce...you name it, all those guys had "off" games in the playoffs.
memo is money
Active Member
There are not many players in this years' market that I would rather have than WEs but considering the money, experience, talent etc.
- Matt Barnes
- Roger Mason
- Rasual Butler
- Jarvis Hayes are the players who I guess will want no more than Wes. They also play similar positions as Matthews.
However, I do not know whether our cap, salary situations would allow us to get one of those guys. If I were to spend exact the same or similar contracts for those players, it's no brainer, to me, to keep Matthews. Not only is he the youngest of them , but he also has room for development and has already proven that he is tough + play both ends of the court.
- Also, assuming that we could sign an unrestricted free agent player; Etan Thomas, Joey Graham, Steven Graham, Jannero Pargo, Joe Smith, Josh Childress (RFA) could be considered among possible FA candidates.
- Matt Barnes
- Roger Mason
- Rasual Butler
- Jarvis Hayes are the players who I guess will want no more than Wes. They also play similar positions as Matthews.
However, I do not know whether our cap, salary situations would allow us to get one of those guys. If I were to spend exact the same or similar contracts for those players, it's no brainer, to me, to keep Matthews. Not only is he the youngest of them , but he also has room for development and has already proven that he is tough + play both ends of the court.
- Also, assuming that we could sign an unrestricted free agent player; Etan Thomas, Joey Graham, Steven Graham, Jannero Pargo, Joe Smith, Josh Childress (RFA) could be considered among possible FA candidates.
Hopper
Banned
Head has signed with Nawlinz, so it's a moot point, now, but I wonder why so many fans base their conclusions on a game or two they personally saw? After 5 years in the league, Head is a career 39% 3-point shooter.
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
I don't see any player on the above lists that I would want more than Wes Matthews.
In addition to WM, Etan Thomas might be nice for a modest salary (minimum possible?); he's an aging but strong center who ironically just finished a 6-year, $36M deal.
Taking fewer shots and being responsible for less offensive output are positives for FG%. Comparing him to guys that the defense has to key on is, as a result, a non-starter.
This is the reason his FG% when he's taking eight shots a game is 48%, but when he gets significantly more involved in the game his field goal shooting plummets.
In the playoffs he shot around 10 times a game and shot 38%.
There are also a number of red flags regarding Matthews shooting:
1. His hotspots chart reveals he was a pedestrian shooter in the mid-range, which significantly limits his offensive usefulness.
2. His hotspots chart also shows his shot selection, and that reveals that he knows he has no mid-range game. This is the big differentiation offensively between him and Korver. You can run any of those pin-down curl plays from 18-20 feet for Matthews that you could for Korver.
3. These trends got WORSE as he took more shots. In 10 games and over 100 shots, only 13 times did he take a shot that wasn't a 3 or in the immediate basket area.
4. If Matthews is such a great shooter, why is his PER significantly below average? Based solely on measurable offensive numbers, Matthews PER was still lower than Brewer's last season in what was Brewer's worst year of his career and even though Brewer has obvious and known liabilities offensively. Oh and Brewer will come at a fraction of the price based on how the market is playing out and we won't be wedded to him for five years when we don't know what the next CBA will look like. That's really what this thread is about: assessing alternatives.
Actually I talked about his shooting percentage for the playoffs in their entirety (38%) and then singled out a particular game where he was horrendous and his shooting killed us. All of this was in response to Archie pointing out that his ppg increased during the playoffs. But thanks for playing.
We can scratch Tony Allen off the list. he's going to Memphis for 3 years/$9.7 million. In other words, less than half the cost of Matthews per year and with fewer years committed. KOC just lost out to Chris Wallace.
Brown is 6-4, 210, 25 yrs old. Wesley is 6-5, 225 and just 23.
I am not sure what makes Brown all that attractive. His FG% are all lower. As a replacment for Price or as a backup for Deron, maybe. He is more of a combo guard like Antonio Daniels.
Not certainly as a starting shooting guard
I am not sure what makes Brown all that attractive. His FG% are all lower. As a replacment for Price or as a backup for Deron, maybe. He is more of a combo guard like Antonio Daniels.
Not certainly as a starting shooting guard
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Traci Lords
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Kicky,
Points noted. However, you used a whopping four game stretch against the best team in the league as your basis for one of your arguments. Pretty weak.
Also, you've taken one part of a rookie's game (mid-range) and ripped it to shreds. I'm sure the same could be done for just about any other stud's game. No one's perfect. D Wade's three point shooting is mediocre at best. Matthews flaw is his mid-range game which yes, in our system is pretty important. That said, like any player, he's flawed and makes up for it in most other areas. I think it's worth noting that Matthews PPS was 1.36 last year, higher than any other SG not named Manu. With more shots, I expect that to drop. However, evidence shows that players improve over time and I wouldn't be shocked to see him continue to get better.
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Also, just compare Matthews shooting technique with Brewer, and you have your answer about who is a better shooter. Regarding his mid-range game, that is something he needs to develop. His perimeter offense has been mainly his three, and when players come out to guard him, he blows by them and goes inside. In fact, his offensive strength is inside, not with the same type of shots, but like Tony Parker, and like him is deceptively strong, but bigger and stronger than Parker.