Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
1 turnover is even less shabby. He has had a few bad games but played well tonight. Corbin is slowly offloading some of the workload onto Burke and I think Hayward's efficiency is going to start heading up.
Hayward and Phoenix
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1 turnover is even less shabby. He has had a few bad games but played well tonight. Corbin is slowly offloading some of the workload onto Burke and I think Hayward's efficiency is going to start heading up.
Batman
Well-Known Member
Nice point. I think Hayward's ceiling is a poor man's Grant Hill when he was in his prime and that is still pretty damn good.
akirac73
Well-Known Member
LOL, you probably never saw Grant Hill in his prime then...Hayward's ceiling is Mike Dunleavy or Dan Majerle. Paul George is a poor man's Grant Hill (pre-injury).
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
I take his decision to pass up that contract as important info about who he is. If he had taken the offer he would have established himself as a leader and made a statement about the culture of his team. I went from being a big supporter of his to realizing he's not who I thought he was. I think his frantic play recently is a direct result of his decision to pass up the money. IMO it was a terrible decision on his part and I'd love to see the Jazz find a good trade for him. You're right that not everyone can be like Stockton, but that doesn't mean that we should be content with guys who aren't.
BTW, even though our ultimate opinions on this situation appear to be quite similar, I think hotnikkk's "Christlike" take is a load of crap.
UGLI baby
Well-Known Member
Some of y'all are seriously over analyzing the Hayward contract thing.
Was a business decision. His agent must have laid out an effective case of why turning down the extension was the best idea, and the jury is still oit on whether or not it was.
I would be willing to bet Hayward very begrudgingly decided to let his agent be his agent and trust that he knows what he's doing, but is now having 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 1,000th thoughts about it and that is affecting his play.
The only thing it tells us about Hayward is that he is not an assassin. Would rather he was a stone cold killer who turned down the extension, then showed the world why he deserved more, but I don't think he has that in him.
£¥£
Was a business decision. His agent must have laid out an effective case of why turning down the extension was the best idea, and the jury is still oit on whether or not it was.
I would be willing to bet Hayward very begrudgingly decided to let his agent be his agent and trust that he knows what he's doing, but is now having 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 1,000th thoughts about it and that is affecting his play.
The only thing it tells us about Hayward is that he is not an assassin. Would rather he was a stone cold killer who turned down the extension, then showed the world why he deserved more, but I don't think he has that in him.
£¥£
Batman
Well-Known Member
Are you kidding me bro? Hayward is better than Dunleavy now. To not say so does not make sense. And Majerle? Really? Though Majerle was more of a pure shooter, Hayward is pretty much better in every way. More length, better facilitator, better on ball defender, much better and effective in transition, better at getting to the line, higher PER when he gets in his prime;we have seen glimpses. palpably indicative of days yet to come.
Though George is not as good as Grant Hill was in his prime, he isn't a poor man's Hill either. He's damn good and a better on ball defender than Hill was. He's relatively close to Hill... He won't fall too short
Remember the 4 or 5 game road trip when Hayward shot like 50% from the field, averaged 22 points per game, 5 assists and 6 boards? I think his ceiling is a little lower than that. 18 PPG, 4.5 assists, 5 boards, 46-47 FG%, not to mention he'll likely use 10% of his possesions to go to the line which will mean his effective FG% will go up. Ultimately, that is pretty damn good and certainly not a poor man's Hill. To say he is a poor man's hill means you defy logic and thus capitulate Ethos. A man without ethos has no credibility and kicks against the Pricks for reasons quite, to say it colloquially, lame.
b_line
Well-Known Member
HotKKK is losing it. Hayward will have a string of games here real soon that make us think he is going to get paid again, and then he will have some crappy games and bring us back to earth. Playing for a contract like he is will be tough on the kid this season, but that is part of the tank.
What Ugli said is the best take on the situation.
What Ugli said is the best take on the situation.
akirac73
Well-Known Member
OK sorry, I should have stated Mike Dunleavy "IN HIS PRIME". And why would you take the Majerle comparison as an insult, you do know that he was a 3-time all-star right? I don't think Hayward will ever be an all-star but their games are somewhat similar, big versatile shooting guards that could do a little of everything, both were/are overrated shooters...
That is quite the extreme exaggeration. I highly doubt he will ever become the 1st or maybe even 2nd option on a good team, but to say he wouldn't even be a starter (top 5) on a good team (not even an elite team) is beyond a stupid comment. This is exactly what is wrong with the anonymity that internet message boards allow.
Batman
Well-Known Member
but Hayward is better than Majerle now and he has a terrible/inexperienced team. Keep in mind that the PG play of the Jazz has been terrible. Majerle had KJ and Barkley (Barkley was one of the greatest players to ever play which made the players around him have an easier time). With better players, Hayward will be better. Majerle was terrible later in his career because he had teammates that were not as good. some years with Miami he shot like 39 even 33% from the field. Also look at his PER. His average PER for his career was 13.8. Hayward's PER was 16.8 last year and before the shooting slump (which is a direct result of the learning curve associated with figuring out how to be a #1 option, his PER was around 20 for this year. I think Hayward's floor is Dan Majerle, tbh. I think Majerle was only an Allstar because there was not a lot of great guards in the west during his time in Phoenix and also Phoenix was a power house. Also, even with those great players around him, he did not shoot a very impressive 3 point %. Hayward was at 42% from 3 last year. Interesting because i though Majerle was better than that.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/majerda01.html
You gonna make yourself unanonymous by posting a selfie? Come on, give us the d
You've just pointed out of one his worst traits... "inconsistency".
We see eye to eye on this.
b_line
Well-Known Member
Fixed
Batman
Well-Known Member
I think the inconsistency this year is in part related to inexperienced/bad team/ bad (terrible) PG play/figuring out his role on the team. I know he usually starts out slow, but there have been times this year when he was really killing it. that being said, if the team was good, I think the inconsistency would not be as palpable.
Thanks UGLI - but don't you think Favors could have done the same? Pretty sure Favors could have attracted a better offer next Summer, and yet he decided to sign the extension anyway. It just shows his commitment to this franchise goes beyond it being just about dollars and cents.
Batman
Well-Known Member
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dunlemi02.html
His 07-08 season was fantastic. Like, really nice, but other than that, I am not all that impressed. He was average if you take into account PER and at other times not so good.
Listen guys - bottom line is, I'm OK with Hayward at $10m ... may be even $11m if I'm feeling generous.. but anything $12m and over I feel like we're getting ripped off.
He has shown in these last couple of weeks that he can't be the #Main_Main. He's the 3rd/4th best player on a Championship team at best, IMO.
He has shown in these last couple of weeks that he can't be the #Main_Main. He's the 3rd/4th best player on a Championship team at best, IMO.