Hill and Hayward: The Package Deal

[Ron Mexico]

It would be a huge mistake if the Jazz overpay to keep Hill and Ingles and guarantees Diaw's contract.

You don't want championships with this type of mentality.

Why?

Unless you can get something better you keep the talent you have. They can all be trade chips in the future to build something better. You dont let good talent just walk away for nothing that does not bring championships. We need players like Hill and Inlges to be good enough to attract talent and to have trade chips if we have someone we can get. I cant think of other championship teams that let good solid talent walk away for nothing. For example San Antonio traded Hill for the right piece at the right time. They didnt just let him leave.

 

[Diamond77]

Why?

Unless you can get something better you keep the talent you have. They can all be trade chips in the future to build something better. You dont let good talent just walk away for nothing that does not bring championships. We need players like Hill and Inlges to be good enough to attract talent and to have trade chips if we have someone we can get. I cant think of other championship teams that let good solid talent walk away for nothing. For example San Antonio traded Hill for the right piece at the right time. They didnt just let him leave.

The so called "talents" are Hood, Exum, Burks and Favors. I still have faith in them.

Hill is already 31 and Ingles going for 30. I don't want the Jazz to overpay them with long contracts.

 

[Ron Mexico]

The so called "talents" are Hood, Exum, Burks and Favors. I still have

Hill is already 31 and Ingles going for 30. I don't want the Jazz to overpay them with long contracts.

Because they wont help us win or they will be untradeable? Or because they will prevent us from signing someone else?

 

[Diamond77]

Because they wont help us win or they will be untradeable? Or because they will prevent us from signing someone else?

They could be untradeable and I would like the Jazz to explore the free agency.

 

[Douchebag K]

We're a 60+ win team next year with no changes. I'd stick with that and then sort things out in the summer of 2018. Breaking 60 wins and a good playoff showing puts us in another realm that opens doors for bringing in other key people, regardless of whether or not we lose some people.

Regarding Snyder not being open to a Gobert/Favors combo, I think the jury is out on that. They played together enough after Kanter was traded and we went on that run. The next year both of them missed 20 games each. This year Favors was never healthy. And we don't have a legitimate backup center that can play minutes so a hobbled Favors got penciled in there. Next season they play together which I believe is what makes us unique.

agree with this .. Derrick being able to hit his midrange shot while playing center for Rudy in foul trouble won us a game. I think the spacing is an issue but not insurmountable. The thing is if the offence gets a little constipated sometimes who gives a rats if we're suffocating teams defensively ? Surly the NET rating is the most important thing ?? Along with if he's healthy enough to play backup center. I'd be stunned if we gave up on Derrick at this stage.

 

[royzzz]

I'm not convinced that we have to sign Hill for Hayward to stay. After all, there is no place else Gordon would end up where Hill goes with him. I think Hill is playing that card a lot stronger than Gordon. I am sure Gordon would like to have George back but more than that he wants to see we are serious about winning. If we add another piece to the puzzle and it isn't George I think Gordon will be fine with that.

That George can be Paul George

 

[royzzz]

I just like he conceit here that everyone on this board thinks that they have a better handle on the salary cap situation than Gordon Hayward. If signing Hill to four years 25 million hurts the team, Hayward knows that more than anyone. If that type of money loses us Jingles and Favors, why would you think that Hayward is stupid enough to go along with it?

For the record, I think Hill can get 4 years OR 25 million, not both. There are only 8 or nine teams that could offer him that, and he isn't 8th or 9th on the priority list. Unfortunately, one of those teams is the Spurs, which is the only real situation that Hill can shine like he does here.

How scary it would be if instead of Hill, Spurs signs Gordon!
Assuming he takes a lower salary but better chances of winning an championship.
Hayward-Leonard now they just have to ship Pau and Parker.

 

[royzzz]

Good post. I don't think it's safe to assume that they're a package deal. I believe Hayward would likely re-sign if we were able to pull off a significant acquisition or the FO's as able to sell him on the promise of eventually landing that missing 3rd piece.

Replacing Hill with a solid stop-gap PG such as Mills/Collison/etc (depending on the financial commitment it would take) while retaining the majority of this year's roster (assuming a significant trade doesn't materialize) shouldn't cause much of a drop-off (if any, considering internal development/incoming rookies/potential additional FA signings/etc) in the teams ability to compete & would help retain long-term flexibility.

Hill missing significant time, Gobert establishing himself as an elite player, & witnessing first hand that the current roster isn't ready to truly compete with GSW are all factors that could convince Hayward to return regardless of how the Hill situation plays out.

Agree on this.
A solid stop-gap PG PLUS get somebody who can defend wings, get rebounds and consistently hit outside shots.
With GSW series the Jazz were closing on them but could never get over the hump.
Part of it is experience and not playing the full 48mins.
But also other than Hayward nobody is helping out Gobert get rebounds.

 

[colton]

Quin has shown very little willingness to roll with Gobert/Favors...

Not sure if I can agree with that. Granted it was true in the playoffs but one or both of them were injured essentially the whole time, quite possibly with minute restrictions. And according to 82games.com, https://www.82games.com/1617/1617UTA2.HTM, the two 5-man lineups that got the most minutes this season were with Gobert and Favors both on the floor.

 

[Miggs]

Not sure if I can agree with that. Granted it was true in the playoffs but one or both of them were injured essentially the whole time, quite possibly with minute restrictions. And according to 82games.com, https://www.82games.com/1617/1617UTA2.HTM, the two 5-man lineups that got the most minutes this season were with Gobert and Favors both on the floor.

On a per game basis, Hill was not in any of our three best five-man rotations. He wasn't in our fifth best either.

 

[Elizah Huge]

On a per game basis, Hill was not in any of our three best five-man rotations. He wasn't in our fifth best either.

Well, we were 33-16 with him and 18-15 without him so.. there's that.


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[Saint Cy of JFC]

Not sure if I can agree with that. Granted it was true in the playoffs but one or both of them were injured essentially the whole time, quite possibly with minute restrictions. And according to 82games.com, https://www.82games.com/1617/1617UTA2.HTM, the two 5-man lineups that got the most minutes this season were with Gobert and Favors both on the floor.

Dont feel like doing the math, but even though they are the two most used lineups (because starting lineups are more consistent than any other mid-game rotation lineup) they are still in the minority. They only appear in 3 lineups together.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't believe for one second that Hayward re-ups with the Jazz without ironclad assurances from DL on a George Hill resigning or another big acquisition in his place.

He would be a straight fool to approach it any differently. He wants to win. If this were up to all of the know-nothing capologists flexing their flagrant ignorance, we'd be accidentally heading into either another rebuild or a very depressing treadmill.

 

[SCS]

You said get some stars and named them.
There is more to it than that.

You also said be patient. Not sure that being patient gets us anywhere.

Of course there's more to it. But the guys I mentioned are obtainable for us in trade. The guys I mentioned were Paul George, Jimmy Butler and Brook Lopez. Paul George is going to get traded, I think everyone agrees there. The Pacers have to get something in return for him before he leaves them in free agency. It's been reported recently that sources have said that Jimmy Butler won't be back in Chicago next year. The Nets were shopping Brook Lopez for two first rounders at the deadline. We can trade for one of these guys. We have the assets to make it happen. I'm not dreaming about getting Lebron, Kawhi or Anthony Davis like your snarky comment suggested. I'm just saying we should try to trade for one of these stars who are actually on the block and make a big push for a championship. If none of these trades work out I think we should be patient for a trade that does. Re-signing George Hill at 25-30 million sets us on a finite path with no wiggle room and no options. If he can't stay healthy or regresses you aren't trading that contract. It's probably not even tradeable if he's healthy. It's a noose around the teams neck.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Of course there's more to it. But the guys I mentioned are obtainable for us in trade. The guys I mentioned were Paul George, Jimmy Butler and Brook Lopez. Paul George is going to get traded, I think everyone agrees there. The Pacers have to get something in return for him before he leaves them in free agency. It's been reported recently that sources have said that Jimmy Butler won't be back in Chicago next year. The Nets were shopping Brook Lopez for two first rounders at the deadline. We can trade for one of these guys. We have the assets to make it happen. I'm not dreaming about getting Lebron, Kawhi or Anthony Davis like your snarky comment suggested. I'm just saying we should try to trade for one of these stars who are actually on the block and make a big push for a championship. If none of these trades work out I think we should be patient for a trade that does. Re-signing George Hill at 25-30 million sets us on a finite path with no wiggle room and no options. If he can't stay healthy or regresses you aren't trading that contract. It's probably not even tradeable if he's healthy. It's a noose around the teams neck.

Keep George Hill and have no cap space or let George Hill walk and have no cap space.

Such a hard question.


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[SCS]

Keep George Hill and have no cap space or let George Hill walk and have no cap space.

Such a hard question.


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Those are the two options if you're only thinking about this year. But I'm not.

 

[colton]

Dont feel like doing the math, but even though they are the two most used lineups (because starting lineups are more consistent than any other mid-game rotation lineup) they are still in the minority. They only appear in 3 lineups together.

True. They were not used together the majority of the minutes. But again, I don't think you can say that "Quin has shown very little willingness to roll with Gobert/Favors". He has certainly shown some willingness.