Homelessness in Utah and Draper City...

[The Thriller]

We all know about the homelessness in downtown SLC. Over the past few months there has been a fiasco in trying to figure out where to place new homeless shelters so that the downtown area can be redeveloped. Sugar House was first debated. Now Draper. Needless to say things got ugly. This happened last night in Draper:

https://www.sltrib.com/home/5116759-155/draper-city-homeless-shelter-open-house

Yikes...

The group, which poured out the door of the school's 700-person-capacity auditorium, booed as Lawrence Horman called for compassion for homeless residents.

Horman told the group he was homeless. He lives in an orange shipping trailer with electricity from a nearby power pole on a commercial lot, he told The Tribune. The audience booed him as he called for patience.

 

[Miggs]

"Another resident proposed buying for homeless residents one-way tickets to another city."

Awful, just awful. The guy who said that makes me sick.

I've always had a sore spot for the homeless. We have no idea why they're homeless, what they've gone through from infancy on up through adulthood, and can't fathom how hopeless and lonely an existence one must feel both succumbing to that life and living it on a day in, day out basis. It's sad. Some, maybe even many, may be brilliant people with good souls and much to offer.

 

[Game6Conley]

I'll tell ya what they ought to do about 'Homelessness'. first thing, change the name of it, change the name of the condition. It's not Homelessness, it's HOUSElessness, it's houses these people need. A home is an abstract idea, a home is a setting, it's a state of mind, these people need houses, physical tangible structures.

But where are you gonna put em? where you gonna build em? Nobody wants you to build low-cost housing near their house.. People don't want it near em.. We've got something in this country, you've heard of it, it's called NIMBY - Not In My BackYard.

People don't want any kind of social help located anywhere near them. You try to open up a halfway house, try to open up a rehab center for drugs or alcohol, try to build a home for some retarded people who want to work their way into the community. People say "not in my backyard". People don't want anything near them, especially if it might help somebody else. Part of the great American spirit of generosity we're always told about.

- George Carlin. 1992 "Jammin' in New York"

 

[JazzGal]

I can't pretend to know the solution to this situation. But I am disheartened by the lack of empathy that is shown by many. Fortunately there are so many good people who are trying to help others and make the world a better place, and I need to remember them and learn from them. We are all in this together, and none of us are immune to tough times.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Nate505]

"Another resident proposed buying for homeless residents one-way tickets to another city."

Awful, just awful. The guy who said that makes me sick.

I've always had a sore spot for the homeless. We have no idea why they're homeless, what they've gone through from infancy on up through adulthood, and can't fathom how hopeless and lonely an existence one must feel both succumbing to that life and living it on a day in, day out basis. It's sad. Some, maybe even many, may be brilliant people with good souls and much to offer.

Yeah, that POS should get his *** kicked, and when he heals from that, it should be kicked again. What a miserable SOB.

It always amazed me that vets make up like 10-20% of the homeless population, yet the areas that are so rah rah the military when it comes to war couldn't seem to give a **** about them at all when they get back home and are struggling.

 

[Game6Conley]

It always amazed me that vets make up like 10-20% of the homeless population, yet the areas that are so rah rah the military when it comes to war couldn't seem to give a **** about them at all when they get back home and are struggling.

A perfect example of mob mentality / hive-mind gone wrong. The hive is goaded into a fight or flight response, the soldier bee's react accordingly and militantly and somehow along the way human stupidity interferes and the common response often ends up being DENIAL. Denial that there's mentally and physically wounded survivors, soldier bee's, who need help, re-integrated among us the civilians.

The easiest way, by-far, to continually sweep a story like this under the rug. Is to continue to goad the hive, which constantly produces new soldiers. You know... keep everyone on their toes..

This is why I like Ed Harris character in the movie "The Rock" even though he's a villain, his motives are proper and fair compensation for one of these DENIAL type of compassion-less restitution-less responses..


In a way I'm reminded of the Mother Teresa quote “I was once asked why I don't participate in anti-war demonstrations. I said that I will never do that, but as soon as you have a pro-peace rally, I'll be there.”

btw I only quote Mother Teresa while i'm having my morning tea.

I swear the core issue here is mentality. The powers that be, the ones who goad the hive, thru malicious propaganda, false pride and fear mongering, do so in a brutally effective fashion, and IMO the chain of denial or whatever u wanna call it will be alive well after the day I die, and I'm in my 20's!!

****ed up part is the fixes aren't NEARLY as difficult as some would lead you to believe. The word retarded is apropos..

 

[addictionary]

A perfect example of mob mentality / hive-mind gone wrong. The hive is goaded into a fight or flight response, the soldier bee's react accordingly and militantly and somehow along the way human stupidity interferes and the common response often ends up being DENIAL. Denial that there's mentally and physically wounded survivors, soldier bee's, who need help, re-integrated among us the civilians.

The easiest way, by-far, to continually sweep a story like this under the rug. Is to continue to goad the hive, which constantly produces new soldiers. You know... keep everyone on their toes..

This is why I like Ed Harris character in the movie "The Rock" even though he's a villain, his motives are proper and fair compensation for one of these DENIAL type of compassion-less restitution-less responses..


In a way I'm reminded of the Mother Teresa quote “I was once asked why I don't participate in anti-war demonstrations. I said that I will never do that, but as soon as you have a pro-peace rally, I'll be there.”

btw I only quote Mother Teresa while i'm having my morning tea.

I swear the core issue here is mentality. The powers that be, the ones who goad the hive, thru malicious propaganda, false pride and fear mongering, do so in a brutally effective fashion, and IMO the chain of denial or whatever u wanna call it will be alive well after the day I die, and I'm in my 20's!!

****ed up part is the fixes aren't NEARLY as difficult as some would lead you to believe. The word retarded is apropos..

So I what is the fix for this one?

 

[Game6Conley]

So I what is the fix for this one?

Depends on the resources available. Given ample resources there's really cool looking(far from an eyesore) low-cost housing options around these days..

The fix is low-cost housing, thats located in walking distance to mass transportation.. and helping people get footing and proper guidance/support/mentorship... It's gonna cost a lot of $$ upfront, jobs will be created from it tho, and lives will change drastically..

I'd probably try to hire Bjarke Ingles, given ample resources, or have an architect emulate a 'mountain dwellings' style housing as seen in Copenhagen.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Depends on the resources available. Given ample resources there's really cool looking(far from an eyesore) low-cost housing options around these days..

The fix is low-cost housing, thats located in walking distance to mass transportation.. and helping people get footing and proper guidance/support/mentorship... It's gonna cost a lot of $$ upfront, jobs will be created from it tho, and lives will change drastically..

I'd probably try to hire Bjarke Ingles, given ample resources, or have an architect emulate a 'mountain dwellings' style housing as seen in Copenhagen.

seems reasonable, but i will one up you!

will they get to be involved in the building process. i mean they also need to do their part!

or will it be another handout?

 

[addictionary]

[MENTION=2408]PG_AB[/MENTION] I definitely agree with the entire project but this is a standart program you have mentioned. I was asking more about how to fix the people and their backwards attitudes and what fix you would offer since they are the ones that will supposedly risk having homeless masses in their neighborhood that will potentially turn into gangs .

 

[Stoked]

seems reasonable, but i will one up you!

will they get to be involved in the building process. i mean they also need to do their part!

or will it be another handout?

Painting with to broad of a brush. Not all of them are capable of helping build these. Some of the homeless should be in long term care facilities. Also there is more than one way to "help". They don't have to be involved in the building process and to be honest I wouldn't want them to be. Have professionals build it. IF society deems that they must also chip in then there are countless other ways. Working for the city cleaning the parks and roadways, working in soup kitchens, getting in demand skills and back into the workforce, social work like meals on wheels...
[MENTION=2408]PG_AB[/MENTION] another term often used is "transient".

 

[DutchJazzer]

Painting with to broad of a brush. Not all of them are capable of helping build these. Some of the homeless should be in long term care facilities. Also there is more than one way to "help". They don't have to be involved in the building process and to be honest I wouldn't want them to be. Have professionals build it. IF society deems that they must also chip in then there are countless other ways. Working for the city cleaning the parks and roadways, working in soup kitchens, getting in demand skills and back into the workforce, social work like meals on wheels...
[MENTION=2408]PG_AB[/MENTION] another term often used is "transient".

you are right, i might not have fleshed it out!
aslong as they help and "earn" it in some way!
they should actively do something of-course you cant earn a house by working in a soup kitchen. but if you shown to work hard enough and be committed enough in that soupkitchen, you get to stay in one!

basically i don't want a world consisting of hand outs. i want thos epeople to have dignity, and the best way to have dignity is earn something.

i apologize if i was not clear enough on it. the long and shor tthe principle of it is: work, and you get one. do nothing and gtfo

 

[Miggs]

I love the recommendation of these people doing certain jobs to sort of earn their keep while also making them feel productive. Cleaning up litter in rural or city areas would be a good start. I'm sure there are other jobs in which they could be placed as well. Those who get off the streets and become productive could take on roles as counselors to the homeless, much like former users act as such for drug addicts.

I also wonder if some sort of testing/schooling/training could take place to help get some of these men and women not just jobs, but careers even.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I also wonder if some sort of testing/schooling/training could take place to help get some of these men and women not just jobs, but careers even.

yeah would consider a skills job education also a way of earning your KEEP(or housing).
same kinda principal with education.
learn a real skill, or get work experience!


it gives them a personal responsibility. someone with personal responsibility will take better care of his house

 

[Jazz and Utes]

As if South Salt Lake couldn't become any more a **** hole lol

 

[Siro]

I'll tell ya what they ought to do about 'Homelessness'. first thing, change the name of it, change the name of the condition. It's not Homelessness, it's HOUSElessness, it's houses these people need. A home is an abstract idea, a home is a setting, it's a state of mind, these people need houses, physical tangible structures.

But where are you gonna put em? where you gonna build em? Nobody wants you to build low-cost housing near their house.. People don't want it near em.. We've got something in this country, you've heard of it, it's called NIMBY - Not In My BackYard.

People don't want any kind of social help located anywhere near them. You try to open up a halfway house, try to open up a rehab center for drugs or alcohol, try to build a home for some retarded people who want to work their way into the community. People say "not in my backyard". People don't want anything near them, especially if it might help somebody else. Part of the great American spirit of generosity we're always told about.

- George Carlin. 1992 "Jammin' in New York"

Self-righteousness aside, I can understand why most wouldn't want a ton of homeless people around their kids and families. We should have a referendum or some **** to raise taxes to provide basic communal housing for those without mental/addiction problems, and proper health facilities for those with. Not just cram a few thousand into a shelter and then shake our heads at them selfish NIMBYs.

 

[♪alt13]

Self-righteousness aside, I can understand why most wouldn't want a ton of homeless people around their kids and families. We should have a referendum or some **** to raise taxes to provide basic communal housing for those without mental/addiction problems, and proper health facilities for those with. Not just cram a few thousand into a shelter and then shake our heads at them selfish NIMBYs.

That's kinda the point of all this. They want to get away from warehousing homeless people. These new facilities are supposed to be nothing like the road home.

 

[fishonjazz]

Self-righteousness aside, I can understand why most wouldn't want a ton of homeless people around their kids and families. We should have a referendum or some **** to raise taxes to provide basic communal housing for those without mental/addiction problems, and proper health facilities for those with. Not just cram a few thousand into a shelter and then shake our heads at them selfish NIMBYs.

Glad you brought that side up.

I have tons of sympathy for the homeless/less fortunate but I also have sympathy for those doing ok in life that don't want unpredictable, sometimes desperate people living around their families.

 

[fishonjazz]

Sticky situation for sure

 

[The Thriller]

The article didn't say it. But from what I've heard, the homeless shelter debated in Draper was going to be a (battered) women's shelter. The debated location in Draper was going to be on the west side of the freeway, near the prison that is going to be torn down. You know, where no one lives.

Stay classy Draper.