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How bad is Kanter?

MDAV28 said:
I will never understand "We could have got more, DL should have done better" statement. Where the hell are we pulling that from? If anybody knows what other offers were on the table please share
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MDAV28 said:
We basically were in the same situation as the Pistons with Josh Smith. Except the difference is we traded Kanter before he became a FA and before he had an untradeable contract like Smith.
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The Pistons/Josh Smith comparison is probably more apt than you think. If Pistons fans are to be believed, Detroit received real trade offers for Josh prior to last season, but SVG wanted to try to make it work.

Now, we don't know whether DL was shopping Kanter prior to his trade demand (Kanter 1 - Jazz FO 0) or what he might have fetched in a trade, but given that he was a young, productive Big, with a year left on his contract before needing to be re-upped, I'd guess the Jazz could have gotten more last summer than they did at the deadline. By the time the Jazz made the trade, most buyers had already made their moves to fortify their rosters, and there were few left with assets to burn on Kanter. Keep in mind, Kanter was already proving to be a bit of a headcase at the end of the 2013/14 season with his exit interviews (it's really too bad the Jazz beat writers didn't ask him who should have been benched for him to get the minutes he said he deserved). RJ's comments about Kanter's attitude toward defense didn't help. Still, if not for DL's past transgressions sitting on his hands (see Millsap, Jefferson, Carroll, free agency, and potential in-season moves...), it would be perfectly reasonable to give him a pass on Kanter; maybe Quin could motivate Kanter, and make it work long-term. He was wrong, and the Jazz got nothing for Kanter as a result.
 
ncoloradojazz said:
I don't have the resources but have the mods goback and find it. I wouldn't even bring it up so much but some fans treat me like I have ZERO bball knowledge and so far im batting way better then anyone on here.. Jazz draft last year suckes. 2 Canada players. I also called Millspa a steal. I was wrogn about Dee Brown but that was because your bigot owner thought he was a bad influence on Deron when Dee has always been nothing but a class act. Imagine that the owner assuming something about one the pklayers. Now isee where Jazz fans got that attitude from
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Jazz fans are racists blah, blah, blah... You were also right about Hayward, Babbitt and Aldrich. I love Dee Brown, but you were wrong about him because of LHM? LOL. Is it possible LHM's opinion had nothing to do with the color of Dee's skin? You want to see a bigot? Maybe you should look in the mirror. Remember this gem? "Still better then what mormons probally did as kids. Do they molest the barbies?"
 
Stoked said:
Winning changes a lot of feelings.

Either way it will be interesting.
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Kanter is that guy that looks up to the cool kids and wants to be liked by them. As soon as Durant, and maybe RW, leaves he'll demand another trade. Book it.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
Kanter is that guy that looks up to the cool kids and wants to be liked by them. As soon as Durant, and maybe RW, leaves he'll demand another trade. Book it.
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Yep. If he gets stuck on a LOSING OKC team he's gonna be miserable. I think it's gonna be real hard for OKC to rebuild with Kanter's contract tied around their necks.
 
Gameface said:
Yep. If he gets stuck on a LOSING OKC team he's gonna be miserable. I think it's gonna be real hard for OKC to rebuild with Kanter's contract tied around their necks.
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He's still young and productive enough to get decent value in a trade.
 
GVC said:
He's still young and productive enough to get decent value in a trade.
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I hope they trade him to the Nets or the Kings.

The laughs would keep on comin'
 
GVC said:
The Pistons/Josh Smith comparison is probably more apt than you think. If Pistons fans are to be believed, Detroit received real trade offers for Josh prior to last season, but SVG wanted to try to make it work.

Now, we don't know whether DL was shopping Kanter prior to his trade demand (Kanter 1 - Jazz FO 0) or what he might have fetched in a trade, but given that he was a young, productive Big, with a year left on his contract before needing to be re-upped, I'd guess the Jazz could have gotten more last summer than they did at the deadline. By the time the Jazz made the trade, most buyers had already made their moves to fortify their rosters, and there were few left with assets to burn on Kanter. Keep in mind, Kanter was already proving to be a bit of a headcase at the end of the 2013/14 season with his exit interviews (it's really too bad the Jazz beat writers didn't ask him who should have been benched for him to get the minutes he said he deserved). RJ's comments about Kanter's attitude toward defense didn't help. Still, if not for DL's past transgressions sitting on his hands (see Millsap, Jefferson, Carroll, free agency, and potential in-season moves...), it would be perfectly reasonable to give him a pass on Kanter; maybe Quin could motivate Kanter, and make it work long-term. He was wrong, and the Jazz got nothing for Kanter as a result.
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I understand the viewpoint of trading Kanter the offseason before but I mean hindsight is 20/20 right? I don't necessarily think it's the wrong move to see if Kanter could work with Quin. He obviously is talented on one end, and Quin was hired, and confirmed to be excellent at player development. It didn't work, not only did the Jazz FO see it but I'm sure every other FO saw it. I like how you omitted that as my real point. We as fans don't know more than any GM. It's absurd to think that a GM wouldn't be able to recognize that Kanter was a net negative. The Thunder were desperate. They needed to add talent and add it now. Just like the Cavs with Tristan Thompson, they need to overspend in order to keep their star and remain relevant really. His value was obviously low at the time, I mean look what we got for him after he openly said he wanted to be traded. The notion that "DL should've taken a better offer" is absurd. There obviously weren't any.
 
MDAV28 said:
I understand the viewpoint of trading Kanter the offseason before but I mean hindsight is 20/20 right? I don't necessarily think it's the wrong move to see if Kanter could work with Quin. He obviously is talented on one end, and Quin was hired, and confirmed to be excellent at player development. It didn't work, not only did the Jazz FO see it but I'm sure every other FO saw it. I like how you omitted that as my real point. We as fans don't know more than any GM. It's absurd to think that a GM wouldn't be able to recognize that Kanter was a net negative. The Thunder were desperate. They needed to add talent and add it now. Just like the Cavs with Tristan Thompson, they need to overspend in order to keep their star and remain relevant really. His value was obviously low at the time, I mean look what we got for him after he openly said he wanted to be traded. The notion that "DL should've taken a better offer" is absurd. There obviously weren't any.
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It's also important to remember that Gobert hadn't broken out at that point. So Favors-Kanter was seen as our best option at the time. As flawed as Kanter was, he was a skilled offensive player, who might have learned to become a passable defender next to Favors. There was also his emerging mid-range shot, and a lot of people thought he could develop into a Kevin Love type stretch-4.
 
GVC said:
He's still young and productive enough to get decent value in a trade.
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If you're a casual fantasy basketball player in need of a big yeah. If you're a competent GM trying to put together a contending team no way.
 
MDAV28 said:
His value was obviously low at the time, I mean look what we got for him after he openly said he wanted to be traded. The notion that "DL should've taken a better offer" is absurd. There obviously weren't any.
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You're bound to get **** after a player demands a trade, especially if most buyers have already spent their assets on other players. That's my point. DL has done a very poor job of maximizing the assets he inherited when he came aboard as GM (this is now his 4th season with the Jazz). I agree that the notion that "DL should've taken a better offer" at the trade deadline is absurd. I think it's likely the return would have been better had DL acted sooner, before buyers were done dealing and Kanter had demanded a trade (proving himself much smarter than the FO).

The Jazz FO had, at the very least, Kanter's exit interview nonsense. If Kanter's representatives are to be believed, they also had earlier trade requests. It's possible Kanter had already submarined his trade value, but we'll never know. What we do know is that DL has let players leave without much to show for it, and done virtually nothing in four free agency periods. I'm still waiting for him to take an actual risk. It's hard to cheer for a team that's only striving for mediocrity.
 
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GVC said:
The Jazz FO had, at the very least, Kanter's exit interview nonsense. If Kanter's representatives are to be believed, they also had earlier trade requests. It's possible Kanter had already submarined his trade value, but we'll never know. What we do know is that DL has let players leave without much to show for it, and done virtually nothing in four free agency periods. I'm still waiting for him to take an actual risk. It's hard to cheer for a team that's only striving for mediocrity.
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After the trade, Kanter is on record as saying that he made The Jazz FO aware of the fact that he was unhappy in Utah well before the deadline. Bearing that in mind and the fact that it was readily obvious from the get go that he didn't fit in QS's system, DL should have been trying to trade him by September 2014 at the latest.

We'll never know for sure but my guess is DL did try to trade him well before the deadline but he couldn't get a deal done. And, in retrospect, QS's low ball extension offer to Kanter might have been done to try to spur interest from other teams as well.

When Kanter got wind of the fact that Utah was most likely standing pat he forced DL's hand with his trade deadline comments.
 
GVC said:
You're bound to get **** after a player demands a trade, especially if most buyers have already spent their assets on other players. That's my point. DL has done a very poor job of maximizing the assets he inherited when he came aboard as GM (this is now his 4th season with the Jazz). I agree that the notion that "DL should've taken a better offer" at the trade deadline is absurd. I think it's likely the return would have been better had DL acted sooner, before buyers were done dealing and Kanter had demanded a trade (proving himself much smarter than the FO).

The Jazz FO had, at the very least, Kanter's exit interview nonsense. If Kanter's representatives are to be believed, they also had earlier trade requests. It's possible Kanter had already submarined his trade value, but we'll never know. What we do know is that DL has let players leave without much to show for it, and done virtually nothing in four free agency periods. I'm still waiting for him to take an actual risk. It's hard to cheer for a team that's only striving for mediocrity.
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Yeah, letting Millsap and Jefferson walk so we could tank for a real star was totally a "strive for mediocrity" move. No risk involved with that move either.

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I don't get the "we stuck them with that contract" argument for Kanter. We did not. They did not have to sign him. Clearly they were more inclined to sign him after trading for him, but I don't buy that we "stuck them" with it. At best, DL gets an average grade for this trade. Too late and for too little.

Meanwhile we got back two non-NBA players and a draft pick that will most likely turn out the same way.
 
Howard said:
I don't get the "we stuck them with that contract" argument for Kanter. We did not. They did not have to sign him. Clearly they were more inclined to sign him after trading for him, but I don't buy that we "stuck them" with it. At best, DL gets an average grade for this trade. Too late and for too little.

Meanwhile we got back two non-NBA players and a draft pick that will most likely turn out the same way.
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So basically we got nothing for nothing.

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spycam1 said:
So basically we got nothing for nothing.

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For all of his warts, Kanter is still an actual NBA player. If he didn't have an attitude problem, I'd take him over Booker every single day (at a much lower contract of course).
 
Howard said:
For all of his warts, Kanter is still an actual NBA player. If he didn't have an attitude problem, I'd take him over Booker every single day (at a much lower contract of course).
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Except you don't get him with a better attitude at a lower contract. You get Enes Kanter. If you think his defense is bad now, wait until he gets in his first 7 game series. . .
 
Magic Spray said:
Enes Kanter is a generational talent.

Unfortunately his peer group of other generational talents include Mitch Richmond, Antawn Jamison, Shareef Abdur-Rahem, and other players who are technically great, yet their teams never, ever win anything substantial with them in a primary contributing role.
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Dude Mitch Richmond was an absolute stud who toiled on some absolutely awful teams. Don't lump him in with the others
 
spycam1 said:
So basically we got nothing for nothing.

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yep we got nothing because that is what Kanter is worth. He'll be a massive liability in the playoffs for them, they won't be able to play him. Imagine a high quality targeting him on D for a seven game series
 
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