How bad is Kanter?

[zbone]

DL has done nothing. Let's forget about the Favors extension, Gobert trade, Burke trade (really proactive), GS trade, Quin Snyder acquistion, Burks extension, Hayward contract, Hood pick and maintaining flexibility to keep everybody.

You seriously can't claim trading up for Burke was a good move. It was a significant mistake.

 

[framer]

This. Teams are very lucky to get a rotation player at #23. I would love to have had any one of the three guys drafted right after him but that's with hindsight.

 

[framer]

You seriously can't claim trading up for Burke was a good move. It was a significant mistake.

Burke is a better player than both Shabazz or Deng.

 

[MDAV28]

Burke is a better player than both Shabazz or Deng.

This and also pointed it out more as a proactive move he made.

 

[Diamond77]

Then why didn't the team that got to watch him play for 3 full seasons recognize his deficiencies and unload him sooner? Or do you think it's unlikely the Jazz would've gotten more in return had they not waited until the last minute?

Jazz had to trade Kanter but they probably made a mistake with the timing of the trade. Let's hope Jazz management will trade players at the perfect time in future to get a fair return.

Let's hope they will not make the same mistake with Burke.

After the Jazz were swept by the Spurs, roughly everyone recognized that Al Jefferson and, to a lesser extent, Paul Millsap weren't going to lead the team much further. They were also entering the last season on their deals. If the plan was to tank for a star, what was DL doing in his first season as GM? What was the point in keeping Al and Paul that season? Why not start the rebuild/tank a year earlier?

Just as he did with Kanter, DL sat on his hands until he had to make a decision, and as a result failed to maximize his assets (Al and Paul). Had he traded them, the Jazz would likely have "earned" a better draft pick AND still pulled made the trade with Golden State. This is my point. Has DL done anything proactively in his 3+ years with the Jazz? Has he made any trades FOR rotation players? Has he signed any quality free agents? What does he do all season?

I think Dennis Lindsey had a long vacation this offseason. He had to be more proactive especially after Exum injury.

In my opinion Lindsey should be more active in free agency.

The rebuilding had to start in the 2012–13 season. Jazz gave an extra year to Corbin because he reached the playoffs the previous season.

I agree with you about Lindsey. He is very active with pre-draft workouts and mini camps searching diamonds in the rough...but enough passive after the draft.

 

[jumpin bean]

Kanter has the MONEY, the GIRLS and soon a ring. Why does he need minutes?

 

[ncoloradojazz]

Kanter has the MONEY, the GIRLS and soon a ring. Why does he need minutes?

Kanter best feel lucky he getting anba checmk otherwise women laugh at his ugly self

 

[Diamond77]

Burke is a better player than both Shabazz or Deng.

Jazz could take Antetokounmpo or Schröder, they were both still available at 14th overall.

 

[GVC]

DL has done nothing. Let's forget about the Favors extension, Gobert trade, Burke trade (really proactive), GS trade, Quin Snyder acquistion, Burks extension, Hayward contract, Hood pick and maintaining flexibility to keep everybody.

I didn't say he's done nothing. I said he's failed to maximize his assets, and done a poor job of being forward-looking.

DL inherited the following (inconsequential role players not included):

1. Prime Al and Paul (with expiring contracts, coming off a playoff berth).
2. Favors, Hayward, Burks and Kanter on rookie deals.
3. Utah Jazz 1st round picks in 2013, 2014 and 2015. The New Jersey Nets' 2013 1st round pick. Some 2nd round picks.

He's turned that into:

1. Favors, Hayward and Burks on extensions.
2. Burke, Gobert, Hood, Exum and Lyles.
3. 2017 GS 1st round pick. A pick from OKC (could be either a non-lottery 1st round or 2nd round pick). A bunch of 2nd round picks.


Color me underwhelmed. Turning Al, Paul, Kanter, four 1st round picks (and some second round picks) and three losing seasons into Burke, Gobert, Hood, Exum, Lyles, and a treadmill in the distance is not terribly exciting. If I had told you in the summer of 2012 that the Jazz would only start challenging for another playoff berth in their fourth season after 2011/12, and would only have one top-8 pick and no top-3 picks to show for it, would you have considered that a success?

 

[Nate505]

Kanter has the MONEY, the GIRLS and soon a ring. Why does he need minutes?

The Warriors will obliterate the Thunder in the playoffs if they meet. Obliterate them.

 

[Jazz4ever]

I didn't say he's done nothing. I said he's failed to maximize his assets, and done a poor job of being forward-looking.

DL inherited the following (inconsequential role players not included):

1. Prime Al and Paul (with expiring contracts, coming off a playoff berth).
2. Favors, Hayward, Burks and Kanter on rookie deals.
3. Utah Jazz 1st round picks in 2013, 2014 and 2015. The New Jersey Nets' 2013 1st round pick. Some 2nd round picks.

He's turned that into:

1. Favors, Hayward and Burks on extensions.
2. Burke, Gobert, Hood, Exum and Lyles.
3. 2017 GS 1st round pick. A pick from OKC (could be either a non-lottery 1st round or 2nd round pick). A bunch of 2nd round picks.


Color me underwhelmed. Turning Al, Paul, Kanter, four 1st round picks (and some second round picks) and three losing seasons into Burke, Gobert, Hood, Exum, Lyles, and a treadmill in the distance is not terribly exciting. If I had told you in the summer of 2012 that the Jazz would only start challenging for another playoff berth in their fourth season after 2011/12, and would only have one top-8 pick and no top-3 picks to show for it, would you have considered that a success?

Paul and Al had no value. They just weren't good enough. Tired of dumb people acting like he could have turned them into anything other than an overpaid vet or 2nd round pick.

 

[spycam1]

After the Jazz were swept by the Spurs, roughly everyone recognized that Al Jefferson and, to a lesser extent, Paul Millsap weren't going to lead the team much further. They were also entering the last season on their deals. If the plan was to tank for a star, what was DL doing in his first season as GM? What was the point in keeping Al and Paul that season? Why not start the rebuild/tank a year earlier?

Just as he did with Kanter, DL sat on his hands until he had to make a decision, and as a result failed to maximize his assets (Al and Paul). Had he traded them, the Jazz would likely have "earned" a better draft pick AND still could have made the trade with Golden State. This is my point. Has DL done anything proactively in his 3+ years with the Jazz? Has he made any trades FOR rotation players? Has he signed any quality free agents? What does he do all season?

It's obvious that the time was to rebuild right after trading Williams, yes. We can't know what goes on behind the scenes, but it's important to note that DL can't do whatever the **** he wants--others have to sign off on decisions, too. I think the organization as a whole was still in denial that they were in rebuild mode, so even if DL wanted to trade Al/Millsap as soon as he got here, my guess would be that he didn't have the green light to do so. I get the sense that there was a lot of disagreement about how to handle that decision even when it was eventually made.

He got the organization to fully commit to the rebuild. He got us to tank, and it got us what was viewed as a potential franchise changer in Exum. He got us the best player in the 2013 Draft in Gobert. He got us another draft steal in Hood, not to mention a plethora of 1st round picks. He got rid of Corbin the Clown, and brought in Snyder. He got us Favors on one of the best bargain contracts in the NBA.

I don't think Lindsey is perfect, but if you don't think he's the main person responsible for the success of the rebuild, or you don't think he's made any significant moves, you're delusional.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[GVC]

Paul and Al had no value. They just weren't good enough. Tired of dumb people acting like he could have turned them into anything other than an overpaid vet or 2nd round pick.

Maybe you missed the contracts they were signed to after leaving the Jazz. Way to miss the point, and choose the most ridiculous, self-serving counterfactual possible.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

Paul and Al had no value. They just weren't good enough. Tired of dumb people acting like he could have turned them into anything other than an overpaid vet or 2nd round pick.

Dumbest post I've seen in years. No small feat.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

Spycam has a pretty good take. Honestly, the biggest mistake was not being proactive with at least one of Alsap, during the lockout year when we could have truly maximized our assets, and that was under KOC's watch. Even then, I agree with spy that the Miller's probably never gave him the option of a true rebuild at the time.

 

[Douchebag K]

I didn't say he's done nothing. I said he's failed to maximize his assets, and done a poor job of being forward-looking.

DL inherited the following (inconsequential role players not included):

1. Prime Al and Paul (with expiring contracts, coming off a playoff berth).
2. Favors, Hayward, Burks and Kanter on rookie deals.
3. Utah Jazz 1st round picks in 2013, 2014 and 2015. The New Jersey Nets' 2013 1st round pick. Some 2nd round picks.

He's turned that into:

1. Favors, Hayward and Burks on extensions.
2. Burke, Gobert, Hood, Exum and Lyles.
3. 2017 GS 1st round pick. A pick from OKC (could be either a non-lottery 1st round or 2nd round pick). A bunch of 2nd round picks.


Color me underwhelmed. Turning Al, Paul, Kanter, four 1st round picks (and some second round picks) and three losing seasons into Burke, Gobert, Hood, Exum, Lyles, and a treadmill in the distance is not terribly exciting. If I had told you in the summer of 2012 that the Jazz would only start challenging for another playoff berth in their fourth season after 2011/12, and would only have one top-8 pick and no top-3 picks to show for it, would you have considered that a success?

You're an angry little munchkin hey

 

[MDAV28]

I didn't say he's done nothing. I said he's failed to maximize his assets, and done a poor job of being forward-looking.

DL inherited the following (inconsequential role players not included):

1. Prime Al and Paul (with expiring contracts, coming off a playoff berth).
2. Favors, Hayward, Burks and Kanter on rookie deals.
3. Utah Jazz 1st round picks in 2013, 2014 and 2015. The New Jersey Nets' 2013 1st round pick. Some 2nd round picks.

He's turned that into:

1. Favors, Hayward and Burks on extensions.
2. Burke, Gobert, Hood, Exum and Lyles.
3. 2017 GS 1st round pick. A pick from OKC (could be either a non-lottery 1st round or 2nd round pick). A bunch of 2nd round picks.


Color me underwhelmed. Turning Al, Paul, Kanter, four 1st round picks (and some second round picks) and three losing seasons into Burke, Gobert, Hood, Exum, Lyles, and a treadmill in the distance is not terribly exciting. If I had told you in the summer of 2012 that the Jazz would only start challenging for another playoff berth in their fourth season after 2011/12, and would only have one top-8 pick and no top-3 picks to show for it, would you have considered that a success?

I mean... yeah. I think that isn't bad at all really. By just letting Millsap and Jefferson walk, we have gained:

1. Cap flexibility (the most overlooked asset on this board easily)
2. A smart route to avoid mediocrity and give us a chance at high picks the next two seasons
3. Rodney Hood
4. 4 more picks (1 first rounder, very late, and 3 second rounders)

I really think that isn't a bad turn around at all. I mean really, Burke is the only thing that makes that look disappointing at all. That looks pretty incredible if Burke was Giannis or whoever.

 

[GVC]

I don't think Lindsey is perfect, but if you don't think he's the main person responsible for the success of the rebuild, or you don't think he's made any significant moves, you're delusional.

What success? I'm pointing out what I see as a flaw in what DL has actually done. I've admitted that I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, and that the Al, Paul and Kanter ****-ups (along with the in-season and free agency inaction) could be explained in numerous ways in isolation. I just think the fellating of DL is premature. Look at what he inherited, and look at where the team is now. Had I told you in the summer of 2012 that this is what you had to look forward to, would you have considered it a success?

And yeah, the Burke, Gobert and GS trades were good. Hood and Exum were mocked to go higher in the draft, and essentially fell in the Jazz's lap (and Exum is still just a question mark).The Favors extension was a no-brainer, DL ultimately made the right decision on Hayward after miscalculating his FA price in extension negotiations, and the Burks extension looks good so far. That doesn't erase how Al, Millsap, Kanter, free agency, and potential in-season moves have been mishandled. Dancing in the streets after 3 **** seasons because your team might be one of 16 in the playoffs this year seems more delusional to me.

 

[GVC]

You're an angry little munchkin hey

Better than being a complete ****ing moron.

 

[GVC]

I mean... yeah. I think that isn't bad at all really. By just letting Millsap and Jefferson walk, we have gained:

1. Cap flexibility (the most overlooked asset on this board easily)
2. A smart route to avoid mediocrity and give us a chance at high picks the next two seasons
3. Rodney Hood
4. 4 more picks (1 first rounder, very late, and 3 second rounders)

I really think that isn't a bad turn around at all. I mean really, Burke is the only thing that makes that look disappointing at all. That looks pretty incredible if Burke was Giannis or whoever.

Did you even read my post? DL was GM for the 2012/13 season. That team was already a dead-end. Al and Paul could have been moved before they walked in 2013. DL apparently thought it was better to sit in his office doing nothing, and watch the team finish in the late lottery.