How do the Jazz get this thing back on track?

[NUMBERICA]

Knowing NUMBERICA as a thoughtful and persuasive poster i feel compelled to ask him to explain to me what it is i do not understand. Care to take on the job?

If a person believes that the Jazz can't get or can't keep a superstar, then they should give up and advise the Millers to sell and/or move the team. Game over. I don't believe that. What I do believe is that the draft is the most likely way the Jazz land a player like that (the Rockets method has worked... how many times now?*) and that if you're winning and already have them, then you have a shot at retaining them. If you don't have them to begin with, you have nearly a 0% chance. Bringing this all full circle, James Harden went to Houston from such a franchise. Oklahoma City blows but they got the talent in place through the draft and are now perennial contenders (which required it's own level of luck, but they had their fair share of self-manufactured luck). People talk about how the Spurs have this team that is low on lottery picks, but that all only works because of Tim Duncan, their own prize for tanking. Everything they do revolves around his existence on both ends of the floor and there's a reason Pop has said he'll retire when Duncan does. Forgive me for regurgitating common examples, but maybe there's a reason for that.

The odds are not in the Jazz's favor no matter how you cut it. But their odds are best if they end the season at the bottom of the standings. Reality is rarely ideal and you should know that by now.

*The scenario that they capitalized on required a perfect storm of circumstances. They weren't the only team in the running, they might not even have had the best trade package, and to top it off they actually are in a major market (at least when you consider the China ties) which could've been a significant part in Harden choosing to go there over whatever other teams were in the running (one of which may have been your very own UTAH JAZZ). After they had Harden, then they were off to the races. The Rockets situation and the Jazz's situation are not analogous, especially since the Rockets have/had been steadfastly and doggedly in pursuit of a cornerstone player for many years (or at least the second that Yao went down that last time [who they got... guess how?]).

 

[NUMBERICA]

People, take a deep breath, nothing has changed. Jazz will be far from the playoffs and far from the worst record. Wishing it otherwise will not make it so.

That's why this thread is suggestions.

 

[fishonjazz]

People, take a deep breath, nothing has changed. Jazz will be far from the playoffs and far from the worst record. Wishing it otherwise will not make it so.

Ok so why should i ever even root for the jazz to win? rooting (wishing) for it wont make it happen

 

[Batman]

Let's start with the obvious (and also probably overwrought and trite): tanking is ugly and lowly. But you don't win **** in the NBA without star power which takes luck, and sometimes you have to make your own luck. Players are also generally their best with the team that drafted them and a team like the Jazz aren't going to lure a superstar in free agency anyway. To keep the stink of throwing games off your players and coaching staff, your front office has to be committed to depleting the product on the court how they can while still keeping an eye on the future. When you're one of two teams in a conference of 15 that have no real hope of making the playoffs and the best player that you currently have for the future is not very explosive and is on the more diminutive side of things, actual victories are more moral than they are practical. Starting with this caveat is important because it's important to note that getting in the trenches is rarely the most ideal way to do things. Unfortunately for the Jazz, this probably IS the most ideal way to do things.

Here are my suggestions:

Trade all vets worth half a **** away for worse (or virtually no) players
That specifically means Marvin Williams and Richard Jefferson. Take back whatever future asset you can so that you can continue to peddle this notion that you're doing the trade for any reason beyond the ugly and obvious. Taking back non-expiring contracts might be necessary, but in those cases, you can ask for more in terms of future assets and do it with a straight face. Here are some ideas that have been mentioned in a different thread or two;
-Marvin Williams for Caron Butler (which would also make the Bucks better)
-Richard Jefferson for Ben Gordon (which would also make the Bobcats better and destroy the Jazz)
-Marvin Williams and Richard Jefferson for Danny Granger and Chris Copeland (franklin)
-Marvin Williams for Steve Nash (and SOME kind of asset if one even exists, I also think Nash could be a nice asset for Burke and/or the coaching staff)
-Marvin Williams for Kendrick Perkins and a 1st rounder (they own Dallas' pick which is top-20 protected through 2017, then unprotected in 2018).
-Richard Jefferson for Emeka Okafor
The Jazz might also consider trading Evans and/or Garrett as well. Staggering the timing on the trades might help with destabilizing the chemistry as well.

Fire Corbin
Hire Sydney Lowe as interim coach.

Experiment
Dedicate game time to workshop ideas. Work on sets that aren't already in the offense. Dedicate the team to playing different defensive schemes (2-3 zone, 3-2 zone, triangle and 2, box and 1, 2-1-2/full-court press, forcing teams middle into help, etc.) for games on end to develop a depth of understanding. Play Evans at SF, Burks at PG. Use all of these experiences to broaden your eventual options and gather data on how they work when implemented.

Play Kanter
The Jazz play like hot dog**** when he's on the floor. His role and primary directive need to be altered. He should be shooting threes and the offense modified as such. Then he should be told that as long as he's not dogging it or fouling out, that he gets first-crack at minutes. For his mistakes short of dogging it (for which you unceremoniously pull him), just coach as you go and just see if he figures it out. This could really be a make or break decision for him, but that's a risk I think is worth taking since he'll have to figure this out sometime (or not).

Trade Hayward?
I don't know about this one. I like Hayward. Depending on the cost, he could be a really nice piece to have. But on a team of legit options, he may be more of a luxury than a necessity. He's important for what the Jazz do right now, and depending on how the Jazz feel about what he might get offered and what they're willing to match, trading him could accomplish a lot of goals simultaneously.



Any other suggestions?

So you think Corbin is a good coach? That is why we should fire him, so we can tank more effectively?

 

[NUMBERICA]

So you think Corbin is a good coach? That is why we should fire him, so we can tank more effectively?

He's not bad enough, correct.

 

[b_line]

I really think that Milwaukee would be the only projected lottery team that would be willing to trade their pick for a good player or two. I think all the owner of the bucks wants to do is compete for the playoffs, and have a decently entertaining product on the floor. If we could trade them Burks, Kanter and Marvin for their pick and a couple crappy players in return, I think it could really work out.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I really think that Milwaukee would be the only projected lottery team that would be willing to trade their pick for a good player or two. I think all the owner of the bucks wants to do is compete for the playoffs, and have a decently entertaining product on the floor. If we could trade them Burks, Kanter and Marvin for their pick and a couple crappy players in return, I think it could really work out.

Of course it would really work out... for the Jazz.

Not even Herb Kohl is that stupid.

 

[fishonjazz]

I really think that Milwaukee would be the only projected lottery team that would be willing to trade their pick for a good player or two. I think all the owner of the bucks wants to do is compete for the playoffs, and have a decently entertaining product on the floor. If we could trade them Burks, Kanter and Marvin for their pick and a couple crappy players in return, I think it could really work out.

I doubt it.... they could be playing illyasova and caron butler and picking up a few wins but they know that this draft is an opportunity that does not come along very often

They aint givin up thier pick........ if anything, they will probably try to lose even harder just to stay in the lead

 

[b_line]

I doubt it.... they could be playing illyasova and caron butler and picking up a few wins but they know that this draft is an opportunity that does not come along very often

They aint givin up thier pick........ if anything, they will probably try to lose even harder just to stay in the lead

I don't know, their owner is morally against tanking. But their GM is a smart young guy. It would have to be a killer trade to get it done. The fact that Kanter has played like **** does not help the chances of us getting their pick.

 

[candrew]

I watched some of The Bucks-Knicks game last night - sure looks like Milwaukee is tanking.

 

[candrew]

As far as trading Jefferson, BRush or Marvin - who cares what comes back? Just release them like they did with Glen Rice a few years back. Then recall Gobert/Clark.

 

[NUMBERICA]

As far as trading Jefferson, BRush or Marvin - who cares what comes back? Just release them like they did with Glen Rice a few years back. Then recall Gobert/Clark.

Besides appearances, maybe getting an asset or two back, and the possibility of making other teams better, you may be onto something.

 

[franklin]

As far as trading Jefferson, BRush or Marvin - who cares what comes back? Just release them like they did with Glen Rice a few years back. Then recall Gobert/Clark.

Can't we have a little fun with it though? A conference call where Kev Oaks calls CJ to tell him they wanted to suck bad enough that they reacquired his contract would be epic.

 

[candrew]

Can't we have a little fun with it though? A conference call where Kev Oaks calls CJ to tell him they wanted to suck bad enough that they reacquired his contract would be epic.

I find the notion of an expiring CJ Miles back in Utah oddly comforting.

 

[green]

The only problem is, I'm pretty sure that the other teams have thought of this brilliant strategy too. In other words, if we keep winning at anythwhere near the rate we have been since Burke returned , you can forget about falling back into last place if we don't get serious about it until February. Everyone below us will be tanking like muthas.

We do not play a single tanking team in April. We play 3 tanking teams in March. That means in March and April we can go 3-21 to end the year. I doubt anyone else has potential to do that bad the last month and a half. At that is if we beat Orlando, Milwaukee and Philly. What if we manage to lose to one of those three? 2-22. Yikes.

 

[TheSilencer1313]

We do not play a single tanking team in April. We play 3 tanking teams in March. That means in March and April we can go 3-21 to end the year. I doubt anyone else has potential to do that bad the last month and a half. At that is if we beat Orlando, Milwaukee and Philly. What if we manage to lose to one of those three? 2-22. Yikes.

I hope the Jazz continue to beat all of the tanking/crap teams in the league.
While losing by a small margin to all of the decent/playoff teams.
This ensures the team still holds a lot of pride..... and are still moving in the right direction, yet puts us in a position for a top 5 pick as well.

Lindsay WILL pull this off in the end.

 

[Grandpa Jazz]

and that if you're winning and already have them, then you have a shot at retaining them.

NUMBERICA. Thanks for responding, read with rapt attention. Glad you don't actually believe the Jazz can't get or keep a superstar. And i find little wrong with your reasoning on all else you wrote with the exception of the above quote. What about tanking (purposeful tanking) is consistent with what you wrote. Tanking to one of the worst or worst three teams in the league will not fill any draft choice with anything but trepidation about coming here, and quality players with a future will also be looking for greener pastures. That Trey Burke is now being put forward as legitimate ROY while being a number 9 choice is exactly my point. What about the 6-7 players chosen before him who are not fulfilling their destiny. This is the scenario on almost all drafts. The failures outnumber the great players produced at about a 2-1 clip (among top 10 picks). So then how is the draft our best shot at improving? It is a shot and can work, i do not deny that. What is wrong with many of the best pieces we currently have being retained and the rest jettisoned for what we can get and then adding whatever draft choice(s) we end up with. Obviously it will be a higher pick than the Jazz have historically been able to get. We just have to choose the right player. Easier said than done but no harder than trying to guess which of the top three most sexy choices at years end will turn out as great players. If i convince almost no body that tanking (purposely) is a bad idea. Then i feel good about my opinion anyway. Building a contending team is not easy, if it were everyone would be doing it. Can you see a season where 4 teams try to win games and 26 teams try to lose as much as possible. Not a good scenario for any basketball fan. Again thanks for answering me and reading my response.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

People, take a deep breath, nothing has changed. Jazz will be far from the playoffs and far from the worst record. Wishing it otherwise will not make it so.

Posts like this one drive me insane. You may be content with cheering for a middle of the road team but I am not. You seem to think that "nothing has changed" is a positive. In my opinion, if that's really the case, it's a huge negative.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

So you think Corbin is a good coach? That is why we should fire him, so we can tank more effectively?

The problem is not that he's good. The problem is that he's doing everything he can to win games, but we should really be trying to lose them. Did you see the way Popovich coached games the year he was positioning the team to grab Duncan? That's what we need.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

The problem is not that he's good. The problem is that he's doing everything he can to win games, but we should really be trying to lose them. Did you see the way Popovich coached games the year he was positioning the team to grab Duncan? That's what we need.

No, but I did see him fire the coach that lost all those games AFTER they drafted Duncan.