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How much should we be talking about Donovan?

I think the toe injury in the off-season probably hurt his skill development. Not a lot of time for him to work on his game in the off-season. Also not a lot of time to work on his 1-foot jumping ability, which is still his biggest hurdle in drawing fouls.
 
I actually thought tonight Mitchells best game in quite some time. That being said, he's definitely going through a rough patch. I feel like he's just forcing it a lot instead of letting it come to him. He's not a good 3 point shooter at this point in his career so why does he force so many up every single game? I feel like if he could just improve his shot selection and decision making then his FG% and efficiency on offense would improve greatly.
 
There’s a lot in this question of whether we should be talking about him, the answer is yes and no. Donovan still deserves a pass this season to be quite honest. He hasn’t been good, he hasn’t been bad, it’s just a little disappointing because we all thought he was going to be an All Star level type player right away. Truth is it’s going to take a couple more seasons probably to fine tune this team and him to come into the player he is going to be.

The biggest issue I see is he can’t get inside under control anymore. Last season he was beating guys inside. I’m not sure if he isn’t quite as quick or if teams have adjusted, but he’s getting smothered before he gets anywhere near the restricted area all the time and he can’t penetrate it as well this year, which in turn is leading to more jumpshots which he’s struggling with right now. For the most part though, those scoop layups and dunks have been all but taken away.

Someone mentioned it seems like things flow a little better when he’s not out there. I think it’s obvious actually. The ball does stick with Donovan. A lot of the other guys are in constant motion, but the ball does stick when he gets it a bit more than with other guys. Which is fine if the plan is for him to go one on one or something.

I don’t really have a concern, kids super talented, he cares a ton. Donovan has a decent game tonight, but there’s a difference between being good and being dominant. There’s only been a few games this year where I’ve had those wow moments where you have butterfly’s thinking that guy is on your team doing that. Donovan has been decent but not dominant. The Jazz future and success relies on Donovan being dominant, not just good. Good news is, there’s no reason to be concerned right now. It’s way to early in our young studs career to think he’s not still destined for greatness. Donovan will be okay. Patience. And yes patience is reasonable on a guy expected so much of so early. Let him grow. The Jazz’s success is in his hands, so get behind him, support him, and don’t worry about him for a long time. There’s no need right now.
 
Jingled said:
I actually thought tonight Mitchells best game in quite some time. That being said, he's definitely going through a rough patch. I feel like he's just forcing it a lot instead of letting it come to him. He's not a good 3 point shooter at this point in his career so why does he force so many up every single game? I feel like if he could just improve his shot selection and decision making then his FG% and efficiency on offense would improve greatly.
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Tbh with you I think he’s being told to take a certain number of 3’s a game. I think they want him taking 6,7,8 a game.
 
oneye said:
Tbh with you I think he’s being told to take a certain number of 3’s a game. I think they want him taking 6,7,8 a game.
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You're probably right. I'm fine with him taking 3-4 a game and obviously if he's feeling it he should take more than that but games when he's not hitting and he still takes 9 or 10 are really frustrating. He's shooting around 28% on the season, he's just not a good 3 point shooter right now.
 
He's trying to do too much. IMO his worst shots come:
A) When we're about to break the game open. He looks for the dagger and misses, giving another chance to recover to the opponent.
B) When we're getting destroyed. He looks for the miracle shot and misses, deepening the destruction.

Keep calm Donovan.
 
Just speaking of last night the only real issue I felt was with Mitchell's defense, especially after the 1st Qtr but you could say the same thing about the whole team.

Also speaking only about last night Ingles was pretty trash IMO, to me he was the worst starter on the court, again that's just IMO and just last nights game.
 
RRJazz said:
He's trying to do too much. IMO his worst shots come:
A) When we're about to break the game open. He looks for the dagger and misses, giving another chance to recover to the opponent.
B) When we're getting destroyed. He looks for the miracle shot and misses, deepening the destruction.

Keep calm Donovan.
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I actually agree with this. Donovan goes for the home run a lot of times. Jazz will be up about 7-12 points and he’ll try for a few plays in a row to bury the other team (which is great when his shots falling) and he ends up missing giving the other team long rebounds that turn into transition points that get them back in the game. This however is part of the growth of a young star who is finding his way into consistency and decision making as well as shooting better. In a year or two I think he will be making those plays and burying the other team. Growing pains are a real thing with a star like Donovan, and you just have to take them.
 
//r00t 4 Jazz said:
Just speaking of last night the only real issue I felt was with Mitchell's defense, especially after the 1st Qtr but you could say the same thing about the whole team.

Also speaking only about last night Ingles was pretty trash IMO, to me he was the worst starter on the court, again that's just IMO and just last nights game.
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Joe passes up wide open shots that kill a lot of possessions every night. I remember Donovan said on Reddicks podcast that Joe tells him all the time to “shoot the f***** ball” I wish someone would tell Joe that.
 
It's sad to see DM struggling, but you can't just swing the ball on the perimeter and jack up a three. He is the only one on the team that can consistently create their own shot. I'm afraid he is going to continue to be up and down until we get another shot creator. DL, get off your duff and get us another shot creator.
 
oneye said:
Joe passes up wide open shots that kill a lot of possessions every night. I remember Donovan said on Reddicks podcast that Joe tells him all the time to “shoot the f***** ball” I wish someone would tell Joe that.
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Yep almost every game I swear at the TV and say 'GD!! Joe see what happens' and another common is 'I hope every open shot you pass up ends up as a turnover and a 3 for the other team maybe that will finally teach you' and lastly another is 'maybe Quin should give you the Exum treatment, every time you pass up an open 3 your *** is going to the bench maybe that'll teach you'.

I love Joe and know he's an unselfish player but he has to realize he's being selfish by passing up open 3's. Especially when out of a time out and then it ends up a Rubio 3.... yes that was a specific example from last night.
 
Next evolution of Joe is the mid range, he occasionally but rarely pulls out a long floater but on his pick and rolls with Gobert they are starting to play it to take away the lob by sagging and recover fast enough to take away the layup he has to start seeing that and trusting either another long floater type of shot or a short pull up (like a step or so inside the FT line).

To be fair this is something every player needs to do but Joe just runs it more and/or better than others.
 
His biggest drop off this year is as a catch and shoot 3P shooter. Was 40.6% last year and 29% this year on basically 3 attempts per game each year. If he was making those at a higher clip his overall percentages would be close to the prior year.

He has some trouble finding balance in his reads. I'd rather him work in the 15-18 foot range rather than at the rim when the paint is packed. A few times I think he'd be better off kicking the ball out more on his drives. I think he could also get a decent pump fake game going and draw some fouls that way. If you look at his drive attempts per game his shooting percentages aren't super far off of what Dame's are... he gets to the line more. Last year DM shot a little better on his drives (like 2% better) but got to the line much more frequently because I think he was getting closer to the rim. I think scouting reports caught up with him a little bit here.

I honestly think if his perimeter shot improved off the dribble and if his catch and shoot percentage was better he'd open up more drives and passing lanes... those are things he can fix himself. This year he is actually a little better off the dribble than last year (29.3 to 29.9). That doesn't sound great but it isn't waaaaaay off from where the high volume guys are that are good at it... getting that to 34% to 36% changes things substantially.

It is also tough to ask him to create so much at this stage in his career when the paint is packed. Having an additional shooter on the floor opens up an easy passing lane when the drives get stone walled. He's carrying a big a lot of the creation responsibility and struggling with it.

TLDR... His outside shot is the most important thing that needs improvement. I personally don't want him taking less threes. He could also use a little more space at the rim.
 
Last night wasn't a terrible shooting performance either. One missed three was a heave at the end of the half (its admirable he seems to shoot these more often than not.... most guys don't anymore) and he had one ill advised one late in the fourth when he was trying to be a hero. Eliminate those two shots (one mentally and one where DM doesn't shoot it) and 3/8 ain't bad. He had two turnovers that I could live without - one on the fast break pass attempt... one when he just shoves a sixer to try and get free off the in bound. I think that turnovers come with the territory of being the primary creator. He needs to kick it out a bit more, but often those options are limited (if they hug Joe the second best option is Ricky... that's not ideal).
 
He was fine against 76ers he shot 50% from the floor overall. I would take that from him every game tbh
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
His biggest drop off this year is as a catch and shoot 3P shooter. Was 40.6% last year and 29% this year on basically 3 attempts per game each year. If he was making those at a higher clip his overall percentages would be close to the prior year.

He has some trouble finding balance in his reads. I'd rather him work in the 15-18 foot range rather than at the rim when the paint is packed. A few times I think he'd be better off kicking the ball out more on his drives. I think he could also get a decent pump fake game going and draw some fouls that way. If you look at his drive attempts per game his shooting percentages aren't super far off of what Dame's are... he gets to the line more. Last year DM shot a little better on his drives (like 2% better) but got to the line much more frequently because I think he was getting closer to the rim. I think scouting reports caught up with him a little bit here.

I honestly think if his perimeter shot improved off the dribble and if his catch and shoot percentage was better he'd open up more drives and passing lanes... those are things he can fix himself. This year he is actually a little better off the dribble than last year (29.3 to 29.9). That doesn't sound great but it isn't waaaaaay off from where the high volume guys are that are good at it... getting that to 34% to 36% changes things substantially.

It is also tough to ask him to create so much at this stage in his career when the paint is packed. Having an additional shooter on the floor opens up an easy passing lane when the drives get stone walled. He's carrying a big a lot of the creation responsibility and struggling with it.

TLDR... His outside shot is the most important thing that needs improvement. I personally don't want him taking less threes. He could also use a little more space at the rim.
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Speaking of Dame. I noticed he shot 7/20 last night against the Warriors. It’s just kind of what you get with a shooter I think. We may be expecting too much efficiency. Still could make better decisions, but lots of stars are inefficient.
 
Every one but a few Jazz homers that lack bball iq knew that Mitchell was going have growing pains in his second year. Every one that knows the game knows things change when they have a year of film on you and are putting more emphasis on the scouting report. People were expecting all star for a 21 year old. Time after time again people fall for the same narrative about a young player. Mitchell will be fine. People expecting a top ten player were just being unrealistic. His max level is as a top 20/25 player.
 
Knowledgeofmine said:
Every one but a few Jazz homers that lack bball iq knew that Mitchell was going have growing pains in his second year. Every one that knows the game knows things change when they have a year of film on you and are putting more emphasis on the scouting report. People were expecting all star for a 21 year old. Time after time again people fall for the same narrative about a young player. Mitchell will be fine. People expecting a top ten player were just being unrealistic. His max level is as a top 20/25 player.
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I thought his shot would progress a bit more... rather than regress. I also placed a lot of faith in our development staff and how much he improved in season. I thought it would be gradual... but the homer in the back of my mind was saying "he's gonna be an all-star this year". It's been disappointing but understandable.

I also downplayed the toe injury, when it appears it was a very real thing this offseason. Hurt how much work he could do... which sucks... first few offseasons are super important to a player's development trajectory.
 
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