How should a history teacher handle the "N" word?

[Boris]

Because they know their kids the best, and can tailor the discussion appropriately. And can pick the appropriate time for the discussion. And don't have artificial time constraints. And know the kids' backgrounds so can draw appropriate analogies and examples. And so forth.

Why would you NOT think that? Do you have any kids yourself? I'm guessing not.

This. Why do europeans in particular think US parents do not know their kids best and why parenting is some king of one size fits all model? Every child is different and has special developmental needs. These guys w out kids who think some extra terrestrial alien type model of raising them all perfectly are loonie. Do they not understand some are special needs, some have confidence issues, some have overconfidence bully issues, some are too smart for there own good?

I guess it bothers me when foreigners want to raise are kids according to some one world government standardized robotic model. That is what I am getting from some of these recent comments. They remind me of the childs being harvested in The Matrix.

 

[Gameface]

Teaching kids U.S. history and introducing them to the word in question (no Cy, I don't say the word in my head when I see that. I don't. You can tell me I do, but I don't) is not such a delicate operation. It doesn't take a parent to know how to do it right. It takes a parent to pass on their own prejudice and bigotry.

Parents suck. Like 90% of the time, they are the worst option.

Plus, parents, your kids aren't as special as you think they are. They don't need your customized approach on this issue, they just need good info.

Silly *** **** going on here.

 

[Boris]

Teaching kids U.S. history and introducing them to the word in question (no Cy, I don't say the word in my head when I see that. I don't. You can tell me I do, but I don't) is not such a delicate operation. It doesn't take a parent to know how to do it right. It takes a parent to pass on their own prejudice and bigotry.

Parents suck. Like 90% of the time, they are the worst option.

Plus, parents, your kids aren't as special as you think they are. They don't need your customized approach on this issue, they just need good info.

Silly *** **** going on here.

Ok I get this from an educational standpoint. We need are kids to learn from educators but what I do not get is why you think parents suck so damn bad that they cannot raise there own kids. Like, do you really believe parents should be outlawed and we should all be produce of the state because this is how you're statement reads to me. Sorry if I did not read correct.

 

[babe]

Ok I get this from an educational standpoint. We need are kids to learn from educators but what I do not get is why you think parents suck so damn bad that they cannot raise there own kids. Like, do you really believe parents should be outlawed and we should all be produce of the state because this is how you're statement reads to me. Sorry if I did not read correct.

no, I'm sure it's nothing like that, just appropriately nuanced and refined complexities of legitimate political correctness. Parents just need to go with the flow.

uhhhmmmm. . . . lesseeee. . . . . we have all the right people right here to show the right way.

 

[babe]

Give me a rough percentage estimate of the parents in America capable of instructing their children on America's history of oppression and systematic discrimination against black Americans that still persists into 2016. Hell, half of America probably doesn't even think white privilege exists.

You might be on to something here. Since the issue of "white privilege" was unknown in America when there was actually such a thing, nobody even talked about it. And since most of us missed out on the college class on the subject, hardly anyone really knows anything about it today.

For example, I have never met a vampire, and I doubt they exist, but there's more vampire literature out there than white privilege literature. And for all my conversational baiting on the subject, I've never had anyone actually insist that they have something they consider to be 'white" privilege.

Privilege actually isn't white, it's green.

uhhhmmmm. . . . . . I think there is something in the mind of progressive advocates for change that is, essentially, something I would identify as political privilege, a sort of aura or mantel claimed to root out and reform the unprivileged classes who live in the world as it is, not as it should be.

 

[Scat]

There's a HUGE difference between allowing students to read something, and REQUIRING them to read something. Those were all in my school library. Huck Finn was REQUIRED, and contains the n-word. It was not required of 8th graders, it was required of 11th or 12th graders (can't recall which). Our teacher told us why he was requiring it, and warned us that the n-word was used, much like it sounds like this junior high teacher did. The difference is age and maturity of the students, 8th graders compared to 11th or 12th graders.

Jumping from my opinion that a movie with the n-word not be REQUIRED of 8th graders, to a suggestion that I'm in favor of banning all books for all students, is despicable.

I edited my post so as not to be despicable.

 

[Gameface]

no, I'm sure it's nothing like that, just appropriately nuanced and refined complexities of legitimate political correctness. Parents just need to go with the flow.

uhhhmmmm. . . . lesseeee. . . . . we have all the right people right here to show the right way.

It has nothing to do with political correctness. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Parents should have full control over their parenting. They should also get over themselves. And they should let their children get educated by education professionals as much as possible.

Imagine if you only had one teacher through school who taught you everything, from kindergarten to 12th grade. Is that the best scenario?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I'm finding it hard to believe that people in this thread are saying that the teaching of the history of a socially charged word is something seemingly incomprehensible to 13 year olds yet say that the concept of religion and baptism and everything that comes with it is perfectly understandable for an 8 year old...

I was in a private religious school when I was 10 and was shown a movie where the teacher very explicitly explained that there was use of the word "*******" as a term of endearment and that we weren't to use the word because we couldn't be in such a situation at our age.

Also, given the importance of the subject matter, not sure how this is any different from math. Has to be taught. Responsibility of education in general to do so given the political location of the institution (read: USA) since parents can't be fully trusted to do so. The manner in which it's taught is of course up for debate, but this sort of method likely isn't something new for the teacher with nothing noteworthy happening the last x amount of years the teacher has taught, so my thoughts on why this has come up is due more to sociocultural reasons than educational.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I'm finding it hard to believe that people in this thread are saying that the teaching of the history of a socially charged word is something seemingly incomprehensible to 13 year olds yet say that the concept of religion and baptism and everything that comes with it is perfectly understandable for an 8 year old...

I was in a private religious school when I was 10 and was shown a movie where the teacher very explicitly explained that there was use of the word "*******" as a term of endearment and that we weren't to use the word because we couldn't be in such a situation at our age.

Also, given the importance of the subject matter, not sure how this is any different from math. Has to be taught. Responsibility of education in general to do so given the political location of the institution (read: USA) since parents can't be fully trusted to do so. The manner in which it's taught is of course up for debate, but this sort of method likely isn't something new for the teacher with nothing noteworthy happening the last x amount of years the teacher has taught, so my thoughts on why this has come up is due more to sociocultural reasons than educational.

a damn good post. crickets from the rest of 'em.

 

[Just Ted]

This is my junior high school. Yay!

I love the movie "Glory" but I agree with Colton that junior high school students are likely too young to be shown this movie at school. It seems the teacher was trying to be responsible about it, though, using the word in explanation. The teacher hopefully learns that parental permission should have been obtained. I do not believe he should lose his job over this.

On the news last night, the mother claimed that her son now feels unsafe at school. I'll admit that this may be my white privilege showing, but I have a hard time understanding that viewpoint. No one was using the word in a derogatory fashion, and certainly they were not directing the word at him. If anything, the movie would be likely to create more sympathy and understanding toward a black student. Once again, I have no idea what it is like to be a black American, but I wonder if the reaction is a little extreme.

This movie was the beginning of my love for Denzel Washington. Oh my!

This is also my Junior High School. Although, it's been re-done and moved to a new location.

 

[The Thriller]

In my opinion he shouldn't be showing a movie that uses the word to junior high kids. It was rated R for a reason, that being part of it.

You would be hard pressed to find a middle school in Utah that doesn't have the PG version of this movie. Clearly, this was the version he was showing, not the rated R.

This is the #1 problem with people regarding education in Utah. Everyone has an opinion but rarely is it informed.

One time a parent came to me complaining about their son learning religion in class. LOL. What would learning about the 5 major world religions have to do with Geography anyway?

Silly thriller! What the hell was I thinking?

Another parent complained to a geography teacher (friend of mine) that they shouldn't learn about communism in geography.

Silly geography teacher! Why should we teach different systems of government in social studies? What the hell was he thinking following the state core and such? Idiot.

 

[The Thriller]

Because they know their kids the best, and can tailor the discussion appropriately. And can pick the appropriate time for the discussion. And don't have artificial time constraints. And know the kids' backgrounds so can draw appropriate analogies and examples. And so forth.

Why would you NOT think that? Do you have any kids yourself? I'm guessing not.

Parents know best?

Lol.

I guess I shouldn't be too hard on you. You're dealing with higher education kids at a private school. 99 percent of your students choose to be there.

In k-12 education? Not the case.

Just the other day I got an email from a parent claiming their student to be a "great" student and a "brilliant" boy. Yep. Parents know best. Their brilliant boy is rocking a 1.5 gpa, hasn't risen above 2.0 this entire year, is filled with N and U cit grades, and has been best friends with the school's drug dealer for most of the year. Brilliant student, obviously! Because parents clearly know best.

I think one of the best examples of the "parents know best crowd" are in red regressive states where the responsibility of sex education is diverted from professionals and educators and placed on the backs of parents who know best. In those states, teen pregnancy, abortion, and std rates exceed those of states with comprehensive sex education. It's almost like professional educators in an educational setting can like educate better than Joe Sixpack relaxing after a tough 10 hr work day. The truth is, students tend to listen more in educational settings. They don't have to worry about being judged by their parents. Educators and counselors have been trained. Parents? Many don't know their kids beyond the fact that at some point they opened their legs and 9 months later they popped out.

The "parents know best" crowd mentality thrives in Mormon families, from what I gather. I haven't seen much difference in quality teaching, Mormon or gentile. Some Mormon families have no idea about their kids. Others do a good job. Gentile families? Same thing. The one factor I've seen that does correlate to "knowing your child best" is that nuclear families with steady incomes tend to value education more and have more time to actually know their children.

Parents have a key role in setting examples and teaching values. But there's no substitute for educators who have like... Gone to college. And have received training. Crazy idea, I know.

Hundreds have signed a petition in support of this teacher. The school board isn't going to punish him. And if showing Glory and talking about the N word is going to get educators in trouble then Utah's teacher shortage just became far worse. I applaud educators for teaching the uncomfortable. That's where real learning occurs. It's not reinforcing previously held beliefs. It's with teaching the inconvenient, shedding light upon the shadows, and correcting defining words that these kids misuse every single day.

 

[The Thriller]

Well, I think HOME is the best environment for that, but I think school is ALSO a good environment. I just disagreed that 8th grade was the proper time. 11th grade? Sure. Maybe even 10th grade.

Again, poorly informed opinion.

The 11th grade curriculum in Utah covers from reconstruction to the modern day. The focus being more on the new deal reforms and WWII and the Cold War. Yes, it does have a standard on the civil rights movement too. But it doesn't have near the emphasis as the 8th grade core which deals specifically with rights (bill of rights and constitution), slavery, abolitionists, civil war, etc.

The 8th free curriculum covers from the founding of the country to civil war. Civil rights, the abolitionist movement, the civil war, etc Nearly encompasses literally 1/3rd of their entire curriculum.

It makes sense to cover the N word when covering the civil war and literature from that time. Not only that, but kids at this age are already learning about these words in the locker room. By 11th grade? The time to teach the definition of this word is already late.

Here is a link to the state's core:

https://www.uen.org/core/core.do?courseNum=6120

 

[colton]

Again, poorly informed opinion.

The 11th grade curriculum in Utah covers from reconstruction to the modern day.

The 8th free curriculum covers from the founding of the country to civil war.

It makes sense to cover the N word when covering the civil war and literature from that time. Not only that, but kids at this age are already learning about these words in the locker room. By 11th grade? The time to teach the definition of this word is already late.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I was obviously talking about maturity level, not course content.

 

[The Thriller]

Because they know their kids the best, and can tailor the discussion appropriately. And can pick the appropriate time for the discussion. And don't have artificial time constraints. And know the kids' backgrounds so can draw appropriate analogies and examples. And so forth.

Why would you NOT think that? Do you have any kids yourself? I'm guessing not.

In my experience kids are more serious and honest in an educational setting among teachers and counselors than around their parents. Often, they will give you the answer they know their parents want to hear when parents are present. They're fearful of mentioning their real concerns. I can't begin to list all of the many things kids have attempted to confess to me because they're fearful of what their parents will think.

Will kids really ask questions about slavery, Jim Crow laws, th definition of the n word to their parents? Doubt it. How many parents ever think about teaching these things? Colton, if you do then I can guarantee you that you're in the minority.

You teach the 1 percent. High school graduates, top of the class (Byu doesn't accept everyone), etc.

I teach the 99 percent. Less than 75 percent of my kids will ever set foot in a college to study. Less than half will graduate from college.

 

[The Thriller]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I was obviously talking about maturity level, not course content.

8th grade is the perfect time to start teaching the definition of that word. And how unbelievably inappropriate it is to use these days. By 11th grade? The time honestly has already passed.

I forgot, what grade do you teach again?

 

[The Thriller]

Colton, I've taught social studies for 5 years now 3 districts if you count student teaching. I have yet to find a single school that doesn't show glory. And every 8th grade us history teacher I know has taught about the N word.

Do you know better than all of these educators? Why would educators teach something like this if they felt it wasn't necessary? Or that their students wouldn't comprehend it?

This incident in question is what's called in statistics, an outlier.

The mother of a poor student (I've read about this kid. He has a long history of bad grades and poor citizenship) is using this to drag the school in the mud.

This teacher should be congratulated. Not punished. Which is essentially what the school and school board have done. He's not being punished really. He was suspended for a few days in May. That's an award. And no further action has taken place. Essentially, the school acted like they cared. Got the media and the mom off their backs. And life will move on as usual although now I'm sure teachers will be a little more wary to teach history in their history classes.

 

[The Thriller]

When talking about maturity Colton, what grade do you teach again? Just because your own kids were too immature to learn about this doesn't mean that others are.

I have some experience with this age group. Most Utah 8th grade teachers are already teaching about the N word and showing this movie. Apparently they feel like their students are ready. Maybe some aren't. But for them there can be an alt assignment.

8th grade teachers find this lesson to be appropriate. Do you know better than they?

 

[The Thriller]

Lol this is hilarious.

Honestly.

As Americans we demand history be white washed, demand in being politically correct, and run away from anything controversial. Anything that might make someone think critically is off limits. Educators are stifled with more worthless testing, higher class sizes, and lower salaries.

Then, we bitch nonstop about how poor our options for president.

Perhaps if the majority of trump supporters had watched glory and when taught the dangers of racism trump wouldn't be the head of the GOP today?

 

[JimLes]

I think one of the best examples of the "parents know best crowd" are in red regressive states where the responsibility of sex education is diverted from professionals and educators and placed on the backs of parents who know best. In those states, teen pregnancy, abortion, and std rates exceed those of states with comprehensive sex education. It's almost like professional educators in an educational setting can like educate better than Joe Sixpack relaxing after a tough 10 hr work day. The truth is, students tend to listen more in educational settings. They don't have to worry about being judged by their parents. Educators and counselors have been trained. Parents? Many don't know their kids beyond the fact that at some point they opened their legs and 9 months later they popped out.

This.

Whether people like it or not, many parents can't or simply won't teach their kids stuff they're supposed to know. The idea that parents know best and can teach their kids best simply doesn't bear out in practice. If it did, we wouldn't have so many teenagers and young adults clueless about so many important things. We wouldn't have so many unplanned pregnancies, rampant STIs, to say nothing of how common prejudice and hatred are. And it's often precisely those parents who shout the most about their right to teach their kids about issues that never do.

Sometimes, you gotta just cut through the thin veneer of bull**** and call things what they are. People who freak out about the idea of teachers telling their kids about safe sex and precisely the people who will not teach their kids about safe sex. People who freak out about schools teaching their kids about homosexuality are almost inevitably people who will teach their kids to hate gays. This isn't about people wanting to be the ones teaching their kids. This is about people wanting to teach their kids their skewed worldview.