I think we need to shake up the roster...

[infection]

They have certainly fallen apart in the last two seasons. I think they exceeded expectations originally and have been below for the last two years. Although I think its fair to say health has been an issue the last two years in a major way. But even not healthy they definitely should have still won against Denver and probably still against Clippers. Game 6 meltdown might be one of the worst meltdowns of all time in the playoffs and I think a lot of that was on Snyder.

But I also watch sports for fun and it doesnt really effect my life when the team loses. So I tend to be optimistic because it seems silly to be the other way to me personally when it comes to watching a game for entertainment. But I understand some people are different.

See, this is the problem. You use the junk on the weekend or at a party with friends to enhance the experience. You’ve got your job and your responsibilities, and we see you in that suit walking the streets all sober while we’re face down in the gutter. We need to bring you down a few notches to our level.

 

[Ron Mexico]

See, this is the problem. You use the junk on the weekend or at a party with friends to enhance the experience. You’ve got your job and your responsibilities, and we see you in that suit walking the streets all sober while we’re face down in the gutter. We need to bring you down a few notches to our level.

Sober and suits are two things you will have a hard time catching me in.

 

[Gameface]

 

[Agent#00]

I think Mike Conley need to take over. He need to control the game harder. Dm maybe the scoring leader but Mike is the game manager. Thats why hes here. We can't look lost with him in the lineup.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think Mike Conley need to take over. He need to control the game harder. Dm maybe the scoring leader but Mike is the game manager. Thats why hes here. We can't look lost with him in the lineup.

Conley is looking washed to me. He's been a step slower, his lateral movement is off, he doesn't seem as quick. Maybe it's just the general malaise the entire team seems to be under but I'm afraid his best days are behind him. It's one of the reasons I didn't want him in the first place. I knew we'd get maybe 2 solid seasons out of him, and we'd see a drop-off. And that sure looks to be true.

 

[str8line]

I think Mike Conley need to take over. He need to control the game harder. Dm maybe the scoring leader but Mike is the game manager. Thats why hes here. We can't look lost with him in the lineup.

Good point. Too much Donovan at PG. Conley need to CONTROL GAME HARDER.

Sent from my SM-G986U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[str8line]

Conley is looking washed to me. He's been a step slower, his lateral movement is off, he doesn't seem as quick. Maybe it's just the general malaise the entire team seems to be under but I'm afraid his best days are behind him. It's one of the reasons I didn't want him in the first place. I knew we'd get maybe 2 solid seasons out of him, and we'd see a drop-off. And that sure looks to be true.

Conley is a damn wizard. Wizards who lose half a step are still wizards, although Joe is at risk of losing his wizard status since he's lost almost a full step.

Sent from my SM-G986U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Looking at lineup data... the starting lineup is not as dominant as they were last year... down about net 4 pts per 100. I also saw that the Rudy against bench guys lineup is not doing nearly as well. Down like 6-7 pts per 100. These are year over year comparisons. Both lineups still very positive.

I think a lot of it is bad shooting... the Rudy versus the bench guys lineup is turning it over a lot. I do wonder if Niang's spacing was that important. Maybe JC's **** shooting plus the Niang spacing being gone is leading that lineup to turn the ball over.

Its just weird that the three guys that were On-Off +- masters last year are now three of our lower guys (Rudy, Joe, Mike). Its also a testament to how good Whiteside has been for us. Probably need another 12 or so games to make something definitive out of what is going on.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think we need to see what Rudy Gay looks like as well. If he provides some of that floor spacing needed and can be the scorer off the bench then JC gets a little more expendable and maybe so does Bojan (because Paschall has also been solid). Some struggling teams may start to get more desperate and some teams may need to offload functional players to tank harder… OKC is the only team in that boat.

 

[KqWIN]

Looking at lineup data... the starting lineup is not as dominant as they were last year... down about net 4 pts per 100. I also saw that the Rudy against bench guys lineup is not doing nearly as well. Down like 6-7 pts per 100. These are year over year comparisons. Both lineups still very positive.

I think a lot of it is bad shooting... the Rudy versus the bench guys lineup is turning it over a lot. I do wonder if Niang's spacing was that important. Maybe JC's **** shooting plus the Niang spacing being gone is leading that lineup to turn the ball over.

Its just weird that the three guys that were On-Off +- masters last year are now three of our lower guys (Rudy, Joe, Mike). Its also a testament to how good Whiteside has been for us. Probably need another 12 or so games to make something definitive out of what is going on.

The bench lineup with everyone there has been fine, but still not as good as last year with Niang. We obviously don't have Gay yet, but I don't think we can expect that lineup to be as good as it was last year during the RS. Niang really was a perfect fit there and even if we expect Gay to be better in the playoffs it's hard to replicate that succes. The strange thing about that lineup is that it's had an abnormally high turnover rate. It's not really JC bringing it down. When I looked at it a week or so ago, it was mostly Rudy. We've also fallen apart whenever someone has been out. It's not like last year when Oni stepped in and things went amazing.

The starters just haven't been able to defend. I think that is being skewed by being completely whooped by MIA twice...I'm sure it will get back to normal when we play some bad teams. But it's important to remember that the Jazz are still #2 in offense despite the shooting issues. The Jazz shooting is way down, but shooting and offense is down all around the league. It's very much a defensive issue right now.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think we need to see what Rudy Gay looks like as well. If he provides some of that floor spacing needed and can be the scorer off the bench then JC gets a little more expendable and maybe so does Bojan (because Paschall has also been solid). Some struggling teams may start to get more desperate and some teams may need to offload functional players to tank harder… OKC is the only team in that boat.

This is what he looks like...

 

[NAOS]

This is what he looks like...

I think what he meant was something like "I need to see whether I'm a big Gay guy, or not."

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

For the record Paschall is shooting .258 from three this season, Niang is shooting .390. Both in new situations obviously, both shooting a lower % than last year. Paschall's best 3pt % was last season at .333.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Paschall doesn't stretch the floor like Niang. But Paschall gives you a very different presence than Bogdonavic. We need that presence to help on both ends of the floor and it obviously hasn't yet.

Whereas Niang was the dollar store discount Bogdonavic that replicated his strechflooriness and typically toro defense as much as anyone in the league. When Bogie sat, Niang came on and did his best Bogie impression with less precision.

Arguably we miss that but I think it has a lot to do with the ball and a lot to do with expecting to win vs. bringing the effort. We typically play our ball in the 4th quarter after jackpotting around for 3 quarters. Against teams that play 4 quarters that has not been sufficient.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is what he looks like...

Sexy AF... I am a big Gay guy... always have been.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The bench lineup with everyone there has been fine, but still not as good as last year with Niang. We obviously don't have Gay yet, but I don't think we can expect that lineup to be as good as it was last year during the RS. Niang really was a perfect fit there and even if we expect Gay to be better in the playoffs it's hard to replicate that succes. The strange thing about that lineup is that it's had an abnormally high turnover rate. It's not really JC bringing it down. When I looked at it a week or so ago, it was mostly Rudy. We've also fallen apart whenever someone has been out. It's not like last year when Oni stepped in and things went amazing.

The starters just haven't been able to defend. I think that is being skewed by being completely whooped by MIA twice...I'm sure it will get back to normal when we play some bad teams. But it's important to remember that the Jazz are still #2 in offense despite the shooting issues. The Jazz shooting is way down, but shooting and offense is down all around the league. It's very much a defensive issue right now.

Its been fine but it was really effing dominant last year. That's a big downgrade... at least thus far. The turnover thing is weird. I think you are right its likely Rudy a bit but it also might be JC/Ingles. JC's turnovers are the same year over year but maybe more come in that lineup. IDK... its not been as good.

 

[infection]

So one point I want to make on Niang regarding spacing. Niang shot a high percentage on threes and on a high volume. But most of his shots were wide open. Per NBA.com tracking data, here's what his shots looked like last year:

Next defender 0-2 feet away (very tight): 0/0. A total of 0% of his threes.
Next defender 2-4 feet away (tight): 1/7. 14.3%. A total of 3% of his threes.
Next defender 4-6 feet away (open): 30/86. 34.9%. A total of 38.6% of his threes.
Next defender 6+ feet away (wide open): 60/130. 46.2%. A total of 58.3% of his threes.

97% of his threes were either open or wide open. Niang is a capable and willing shooter when open. But I think the discussion is that he's a very effective release valve to punish the defense rather than an option that's spreading the defense.

The question with Rudy Gay, is will his reputation and presence spread the floor more than Niang while being much less of a release valve (because he won't be as open as Niang). By comparison, Gay's open/wide open was 87% of his threes.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Paschall doesn't stretch the floor like Niang. But Paschall gives you a very different presence than Bogdonavic. We need that presence to help on both ends of the floor and it obviously hasn't yet.

Whereas Niang was the dollar store discount Bogdonavic that replicated his strechflooriness and typically toro defense as much as anyone in the league. When Bogie sat, Niang came on and did his best Bogie impression with less precision.

Arguably we miss that but I think it has a lot to do with the ball and a lot to do with expecting to win vs. bringing the effort. We typically play our ball in the 4th quarter after jackpotting around for 3 quarters. Against teams that play 4 quarters that has not been sufficient.

Niang was very good last year moving his feet and staying in front. My only issue is that he really doesn't bother anyone defensively... low steals, deflections. Its a problem made worse by the fact we don't have those type of disruptors on the floor.

My only issues with Niang were that his defense in the playoffs was bad and his shot completely disappeared when stakes were the highest. Indicator of more or just an outlier? IDK. I wonder what life would be like if we had kept him, signed Gay, and brought on Paschall... while moving Bogey for something... I'm not sure its any better than what we have.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

For the record Paschall is shooting .258 from three this season, Niang is shooting .390. Both in new situations obviously, both shooting a lower % than last year. Paschall's best 3pt % was last season at .333.

I'm not super worried or hopeful on Paschall's shooting. I only worry when a guy can be completely ignored. If you ignore Paschall he crashes the glass and gets some loose balls... He also is able to dribble into a drive. In the playoffs as he is scouted more teams won't close out to him like they do at times now... so it might be more of an issue. I hope he is used in 5 out lineups in the playoffs as a roll man because that has been pretty good based on my observations thus far.

 

[KqWIN]

So one point I want to make on Niang regarding spacing. Niang shot a high percentage on threes and on a high volume. But most of his shots were wide open. Per NBA.com tracking data, here's what his shots looked like last year:

Next defender 0-2 feet away (very tight): 0/0. A total of 0% of his threes.
Next defender 2-4 feet away (tight): 1/7. 14.3%. A total of 3% of his threes.
Next defender 4-6 feet away (open): 30/86. 34.9%. A total of 38.6% of his threes.
Next defender 6+ feet away (wide open): 60/130. 46.2%. A total of 58.3% of his threes.

97% of his threes were either open or wide open. Niang is a capable and willing shooter when open. But I think the discussion is that he's a very effective release valve to punish the defense rather than an option that's spreading the defense.

The question with Rudy Gay, is will his reputation and presence spread the floor more than Niang while being much less of a release valve (because he won't be as open as Niang). By comparison, Gay's open/wide open was 87% of his threes.

It's a good thought, but I think the proportion of shots that aren't open/wide open has more to with the ability to shoot off the dribble/on the move than it is a player's actual gravity. We know Niang does not shoot off of screens or off the dribble, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have gravity. Curry had the most open+wide open 3 attempts per game last season and it's not because he wasn't spreading the defense.