If the Jazz are blown out tonight...

[fufo]

I would agree that he WAS better then Jonas in 2009 U-18. And it was one game he badly dominated him, other game was a basically a tie ( 20pts 7/8 fg vs 22pts 8/16fg ). JV was voted by European experts as best young player of Europe in 2011 and 2012, both times ahead of Kanter. https://www.fibaeurope.com/cid_vJpw...id_MUMtgYLNGw6ts8a4RCdLp3.articleMode_on.html.
They are quite different players now though, so not that easy to say who is better and who is not. Kanter is off to a better start this season, way more minutes and higher usage rate, but it has been only 6 games so far. In any way it will be interesting to see how they both look today.

Agreed. The two will be pumped up to beat each other. For the award thing, remember Enes was a bench warmer in Fenerbahçe. I only saw him twice in a Euroleague game. But Jonas was the star of Rytas team. Saw significant playing time with rugged European style of basketball.
As an unneccesary fact, a friend of mine played with Enes in middle school and told me he is actually 2 years older than his birth year on paper. I'm not sure. But for Ersan Ilyasova yes. He is 29-30 eventhough It says 1987. Same thing for Zaza Pachulia as well. He raised in Turkey.

 

[franklin]

Also last years starting Five had a bench that was good and better than most..., So when starts entered back in the game usually it was still a game!!

Our current 3 starters have no bench to help them out!!!!

Fixed

 

[GVC]

Fixed. We should hold off the analytics when the season isn't even 2 weeks in.

Do you really think it's inappropriate to use the data from the first 6 games to describe what happened in the first 6 games? Will having data from the next 20 games change what happened in the first 6 games?

 

[TheSilencer1313]

Do you really think it's inappropriate to use the data from the first 6 games to describe what happened in the first 6 games? Will having data from the next 20 games change what happened in the first 6 games?

Typical Harpring II jumping the gun.

 

[Zulu]

Do you really think it's inappropriate to use the data from the first 6 games to describe what happened in the first 6 games? Will having data from the next 20 games change what happened in the first 6 games?

Missing the target all together!!!

 

[Deleted member 848]

Missing the target all together!!!

Yup.

 

[Stoked]

Lol at you all.

This train is on overdrive with no brakes. I've got a front row seat and am riding this thing till we crash and burn. So buckle up and enjoy the ride or jump ship.

Choo choo!!!!!

 

[GVC]

Yup.

Please go back and read my posts, and think for 3 seconds about their intent before replying. The point is that the popular explanations given for the Jazz suckage thus far do not match the available data. I'm not making predictions. I'm using the available data appropriately. I've even asked questions about whether the starters' performance has been "bad luck", due for some reversion to the mean.

Are you just trolling me at this point, or do you really not understand?

 

[GVC]

remember Enes was a bench warmer in Fenerbahçe. I only saw him twice in a Euroleague game. But Jonas was the star of Rytas team.

Enes started playing basketball in the US in 2009/10. Jonas didn't start playing for Rytas until halfway through the 10/11 season.

 

[Deleted member 848]

A lot of posters seem to be falling back on two explanations of the poor results so far this season: The Jazz are playing 4 on 5 (Tinsley and JLIII at the 1) and the bench sucks. Unfortunately,

1. The Jazz were 20-12 in the games Tinsley started last season.

Yes, but the Jazz had a main offensive option who only relied on a PG for a post-entry pass. With no one else in Al's stratosphere on this team (offensively), there is now much more emphasis on good play by our PG. I don't find it disingenuous to suggest that our PGs are hot-trash, and play a big role in our offensive woes as of late.

2. Jazz +/- per 48 minutes

Team: -11.2

RJ: -21.9
Gordo: -19.3
Favs: -16.8
Tinsley: -15.7
Kanter: -13.1

Tinsley/Gordo/RJ/Favs/Kanter lineup: -29.0


The bench has been bad, the starters have been terrible. The poor play of the starters can not all be blamed on Jamaal Tinsley/JLIII. Our young players aren't nearly as good as some thought they were. It's unlikely any of them become better players than Al or Millsap.

The last sentence is laughable-- though you mentioned that you were exaggerating afterwards.


I suppose in this interpretation, it makes sense to use this 6game sample to suggest that our starters have been **** for those 6 games. I just think that it's dangerous to make any sort of further predictions based on this sample size (ie declaring that not a single player on this team will be better than Al or Sap whether we're exaggerating or not.

 

[GVC]

Yes, but the Jazz had a main offensive option who only relied on a PG for a post-entry pass. With no one else in Al's stratosphere on this team (offensively), there is now much more emphasis on good play by our PG. I don't find it disingenuous to suggest that our PGs are hot-trash, and play a big role in our offensive woes as of late.

What makes you think that I think the Jazz point guards are anything but hot trash? Jazz fans should be allowing for the possibility that the "core 4" aren't that good. Their play has been poor by any measure (Gordo's the only one who seems to be consistently playing hard and smart out there). Having a semi-intelligent discussion about the team's and individual player's performance is impossible if everyone just falls back on "Ty sucks, the point guards suck, the bench sucks" regardless of what's actually happening on the court.

I suppose in this interpretation, it makes sense to use this 6game sample to suggest that our starters have been **** for those 6 games.

Gold star for me.

I just think that it's dangerous to make any sort of further predictions based on this sample size (ie declaring that not a single player on this team will be better than Al or Sap whether we're exaggerating or not.

Agreed. I was going overboard to spark discussion AND try to throw ice on the hard-ons posters have for young talent. Maybe not the best tactic (and one I generally try to avoid).

Are any of the core4 better than Al or Sap right now?

 

[Deleted member 848]

What makes you think that I think the Jazz point guards are anything but hot trash? Jazz fans should be allowing for the possibility that the "core 4" aren't that good. Their play has been poor by any measure (Gordo's the only one who seems to be consistently playing hard and smart out there). Having a semi-intelligent discussion about the team's and individual player's performance is impossible if everyone just falls back on "Ty sucks, the point guards suck, the bench sucks" regardless of what's actually happening on the court.

Fair.

Gold star for me.

<3

Agreed. I was going overboard to spark discussion AND try to throw ice on the hard-ons posters have for young talent. Maybe not the best tactic (and one I generally try to avoid).

Are any of the core4 better than Al or Sap right now?

Right now? Nope-- Hayward is playing well, but Millsap is playing like an All-Star.

But, as you probably know, your post didn't encompass the words "right now", and this is where my objection stemmed from.