Impressed With Ty

[illyasova]

1. Al is slow. Hard to get into offensive sets early when you;re waiting for a key cog to get up court. How this is Corbin;s fault is beyond me.

2. Again, who on the Jazz is going to run the pick and roll?

3. You clearly watch too much Euro ball. The NBA is filled with athletes who can close distances quickly. Burks has the athleticism and handle to leverage defenses off the bounce. Mo, Earl and Jamaal don't. Why not see if he can make decent reads in games that don't count when both your backup point guards are out of the lineup?

4. You were talking about defense. The Jazz's 3-pt defense was above average last season, even though their overall defense was below average. There are bigger fish to fry.

5. I have no clue what you're talking about.

6. ********. The Jazz starters were much more effective than the bench last season. Go and look at the +/- numbers.

7. ******** again. If Hayward can't hit the pull up, defenses will continue to go under ever screen set for him. If he can't finish at the rim, defenses won't have to overhelp against Hayward, and there won;t be any open players for him to pass to. This isn't rocket science.

Your whole answers are just subjective but not objective enough. If Hayward can not finish, shoot from outside but Burks can shoot, pass, finish? The starters are of course gonna be more effective than the bench lol! Tell me any team their bench produces more. It's all about the right combination not grouping them back ups and starters. Again wht's the connection of watching euro balls with the jazz system? Also why you think jazz got Marvin, Mo and Foye if they think 3 point shooting is not crucial for the team? Last, why it's always up to Al for not pacing up the game? Then his minutes gonna drop. Ty 's gotta have some balls to play youngsters more.

 

[GVC]

Your whole answers are just subjective but not objective enough. If Hayward can not finish, shoot from outside but Burks can shoot, pass, finish? The starters are of course gonna be more effective than the bench lol! Tell me any team their bench produces more. It's all about the right combination not grouping them back ups and starters. Again wht's the connection of watching euro balls with the jazz system? Also why you think jazz got Marvin, Mo and Foye if they think 3 point shooting is not crucial for the team? Last, why it's always up to Al for not pacing up the game? Then his minutes gonna drop. Ty 's gotta have some balls to play youngsters more.

If you're not going to read my posts, don't respond to them.

I said Hayward is not effective as a primary ball handler in the halfcourt because he can't draw defenders away from other players or hit pull-up jumpers when defenders go under screens in pick and rolls. If you don't understand what this means, don't respond.

I was talking about point differential between the starters and bench players. The Jazz will mix it up more with lineups, but were limited tonight with Millsap, Tinsley and Watson out.

I never said 3-pt shooting wasn't crucial for the Jazz. I responded to your comment about the Jazz's 3-pt DEFENSE, which was not nearly as bad last season as every seems to think. Pull your head out of your ***.

Al is in there because the halfcourt offense suffers when he's on the bench. Speeding things up a bit isn't going to help when your point guards can't create for others, your 2 young bigs are ineffective, turnover prone and tunnel-visioned, and your wing players are one dimensional. I don't like Al much either, and I don't like the style of play his presence on the court forces teams to play, but until Favors and Kanter can clean up their issues, Al gives the Jazz a better chance to succeed. I think Ty has probably been instructed to try to win basketball games (that is, the Jazz don't have a history of doing what the W's did last season).

As for subjective v. objective, I fail to see where you've brought any objective analysis to this conversation. I've at least alluded to the Jazz's 3-pt defense stats, fastbreak stats, and starter/bench +/- (go ahead and check if I'm right). If you're not bringing anything to the table, I'm not going to put in the effort to construct a proper argument.

 

[Dr. Jones]

If you're not going to read my posts, don't respond to them.

I said Hayward is not effective as a primary ball handler in the halfcourt because he can't draw defenders away from other players or hit pull-up jumpers when defenders go under screens in pick and rolls. If you don't understand what this means, don't respond.

I was talking about point differential between the starters and bench players. The Jazz will mix it up more with lineups, but were limited tonight with Millsap, Tinsley and Watson out.

I never said 3-pt shooting wasn't crucial for the Jazz. I responded to your comment about the Jazz's 3-pt DEFENSE, which was not nearly as bad last season as every seems to think. Pull your head out of your ***.

Al is in there because the halfcourt offense suffers when he's on the bench. Speeding things up a bit isn't going to help when your point guards can't create for others, your 2 young bigs are ineffective, turnover prone and tunnel-visioned, and your wing players are one dimensional. I don't like Al much either, and I don't like the style of play his presence on the court forces teams to play, but until Favors and Kanter can clean up their issues, Al gives the Jazz a better chance to succeed. I think Ty has probably been instructed to try to win basketball games (that is, the Jazz don't have a history of doing what the W's did last season).

As for subjective v. objective, I fail to see where you've brought any objective analysis to this conversation. I've at least alluded to the Jazz's 3-pt defense stats, fastbreak stats, and starter/bench +/- (go ahead and check if I'm right). If you're not bringing anything to the table, I'm not going to put in the effort of constructing a proper argument.

I didn't read this but wanted to respond anyway.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I didn't read this but wanted to respond anyway.

There's a post between mine and GVC's?

 

[illyasova]

If you're not going to read my posts, don't respond to them.

I said Hayward is not effective as a primary ball handler in the halfcourt because he can't draw defenders away from other players or hit pull-up jumpers when defenders go under screens in pick and rolls. If you don't understand what this means, don't respond.

I was talking about point differential between the starters and bench players. The Jazz will mix it up more with lineups, but were limited tonight with Millsap, Tinsley and Watson out.

I never said 3-pt shooting wasn't crucial for the Jazz. I responded to your comment about the Jazz's 3-pt DEFENSE, which was not nearly as bad last season as every seems to think. Pull your head out of your ***.

Al is in there because the halfcourt offense suffers when he's on the bench. Speeding things up a bit isn't going to help when your point guards can't create for others, your 2 young bigs are ineffective, turnover prone and tunnel-visioned, and your wing players are one dimensional. I don't like Al much either, and I don't like the style of play his presence on the court forces teams to play, but until Favors and Kanter can clean up their issues, Al gives the Jazz a better chance to succeed. I think Ty has probably been instructed to try to win basketball games (that is, the Jazz don't have a history of doing what the W's did last season).

As for subjective v. objective, I fail to see where you've brought any objective analysis to this conversation. I've at least alluded to the Jazz's 3-pt defense stats, fastbreak stats, and starter/bench +/- (go ahead and check if I'm right). If you're not bringing anything to the table, I'm not going to put in the effort to construct a proper argument.

Taket it easy man. Objective and subjective thing is not about the statistic, it's about the scenario you draw. And i do not have to agree with what you have been saying. For me Hayward is better ball handler in the half court too and most intelligent and versatile player at the team so his role has gotta be increased.

And versus you, pace up game helps the team especially if you can not score easily as you mentioning. By this, players like Mo, Marvin, Favors, Burks etc can find their rhytms and depending on Al situation decreases. Also, targeting the getting W is not an excuse for Ty to depend on just Al. He is also responsible for the future of the team so Favors, Kanter, Burks gotta get more min whatever happens. So what will you do when Al or Millsap leaves? You are gonna apologize to Favors and Kanter for not giving enough opportunity? And for the 3 point DEFENSE, Marvin is the key, see the Thunder game him against Durant. So he's brought here not for shooting but also solving the lack of 3 point shooting DEFENSE.

 

[GVC]

So he's brought here not for shooting but also solving the lack of 3 point shooting DEFENSE.

What lack of 3-pt shooting defense? The Jazz were fine against the 3 last season.

As for the other stuff, there's certainly room for disagreement. I don't think Hayward is effective off the dribble in the halfcourt. Without knowing what instructions Ty has from management re: Winning now v. developing young players, it's hard to assess him on that issue.

 

[GVC]

Check out Gordo's "Offense-Plays" stats on mysynergysports.com. He was pretty ineffective last season scoring as the ball handler in the pick and roll and in isos, scoring 0.57 and 0.66 points per possession respectively. Defenses pick up on this stuff, and adjust accordingly. If he can't keep defenses honest with the ball in his hands in the halfcourt, he's not going to be able to draw defenders to open up space for players off the ball to get into position for easy buckets. He can make the passes, he just can't create the opportunities.

 

[Dr. Jones]

If you're not going to read my posts, don't respond to them.

I said Hayward is not effective as a primary ball handler in the halfcourt because he can't draw defenders away from other players or hit pull-up jumpers when defenders go under screens in pick and rolls. If you don't understand what this means, don't respond.

I was talking about point differential between the starters and bench players. The Jazz will mix it up more with lineups, but were limited tonight with Millsap, Tinsley and Watson out.

I never said 3-pt shooting wasn't crucial for the Jazz. I responded to your comment about the Jazz's 3-pt DEFENSE, which was not nearly as bad last season as every seems to think. Pull your head out of your ***.

Al is in there because the halfcourt offense suffers when he's on the bench. Speeding things up a bit isn't going to help when your point guards can't create for others, your 2 young bigs are ineffective, turnover prone and tunnel-visioned, and your wing players are one dimensional. I don't like Al much either, and I don't like the style of play his presence on the court forces teams to play, but until Favors and Kanter can clean up their issues, Al gives the Jazz a better chance to succeed. I think Ty has probably been instructed to try to win basketball games (that is, the Jazz don't have a history of doing what the W's did last season).

As for subjective v. objective, I fail to see where you've brought any objective analysis to this conversation. I've at least alluded to the Jazz's 3-pt defense stats, fastbreak stats, and starter/bench +/- (go ahead and check if I'm right). If you're not bringing anything to the table, I'm not going to put in the effort to construct a proper argument.

I didn't read this but wanted to respond anyway.

Just ribbing GVC.

There's a post between mine and GVC's?

If you're trying to be an ***, try harder.

 

[Jazz4ever]

I'm convinced he'll always be a below average coach in this league, too many imbecilic decisions last year to give any hope.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I'm convinced he'll always be a below average coach in this league, too many imbecilic decisions last year to give any hope.

That's a bit harsh, don't ya think?

#1 - Everyone learns through trial and error.
#2 - We have no way of knowing how many of those decisions were being called from the top for varying reasons.
#3 - Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[illyasova]

Check out Gordo's "Offense-Plays" stats on mysynergysports.com. He was pretty ineffective last season scoring as the ball handler in the pick and roll and in isos, scoring 0.57 and 0.66 points per possession respectively.

Isos is another area but pick n roll position just does not up to ball handler but the player who rolls and moves too. We gotta regard the both players in action to decide it. Did he do it mostly with Al? Kanter? Millsap or Favors? Last year Kanter just sucked in every single pick n roll position. For Al no need to talk about. Millsap and Favors are both good. For three point defense, i especially thought San Antonio playoff matches. It really hurt bad. The team needed a good defensive player who is athletic enough to cover other players and not picked easily by screens.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I didn't read this but wanted to respond anyway.

There's a post between mine and GVC's?

Just ribbing

!

 

[Dr. Jones]

!

Haha, I thought you or someone else may go there..

What can I say, GVC has a pervie side.

 

[GVC]

Isos is another area but pick n roll position just does not up to ball handler but the player who rolls and moves too.

Of course, but if he can't hit the pull-up jumper (he can't) when defenders go under the screen or effectively attack the rim when the helper doesn't show hard, it's not going to matter who he's running a pick and roll with.

For the sake of comparison, Al scored 0.96 points per possession in post-ups last season (which require little help from teammates). Does it really make sense, given the disparity in efficiency, to take the ball out of Al's hands and give it to Gordon?

 

[illyasova]

Of course, but if he can't hit the pull-up jumper (he can't) when defenders go under the screen or effectively attack the rim when the helper doesn't show hard, it's not going to matter who he's running a pick and roll with.

For the sake of comparison, Al scored 0.96 points per possession in post-ups last season (which require little help from teammates). Does it really make sense, given the disparity in efficiency, to take the ball out of Al's hands and give it to Gordon?

The difference between us is the approach. I belive that Corbin must not think just the season but also the future. I do not care of Al's post up number per possession. He's been playing in the league for may be 9 years and one of the best post up players but he must not be the future of the team. He is good guy, but not a winner and won't be ever. So i prefer the ball Hayward's hand to make a play with Favors or Kanter. So when Al's gone, Corbin will resign? He's gotta search different ways for the youngsters. Jazz can be just succesful by chemistry between youngsters otherwise just helps the statistic numbers of Al

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I'm trying to find that spiderweb chart that overlays play percentage and efficiency. Saw it a couple months ago for every team and now I can't find it. Showed the most type of plays a team used assigned per player and it's point per possession efficiency.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

I think his handling of Foye and Burks will be a huge indicator. Foye is a chucker. He has little court vision and is always look for his shot, at least from what I've seen so far, and from what he's demonstrated on other teams I don't see it changing. I know Ty is trying to challenge Alec, and I like it. But Burks is a better offensive option than Foye, and so far defensively it's a wash. If Ty allows Randy to chuck up the **** he has thus far I will not be happy.

Overall tho, I like where Ty is going, it's been a huge difference from last year. He has Al in the high post more and we're seeing less "left block or die" sets. He's using Marvin situationally and allowing Hayward to handle the ball more. Mo has bought in and is doing exactly what Harris should've done. It looks good, so far.

Burks has shown what he can do and it's better than what Foye offers, I hope by the AS break Burks gets the nod from Ty.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I was impressed with him when we made the playoffs last year despite having limited practice time and no off-season.

 

[GVC]

The difference between us is the approach. I belive that Corbin must not think just the season but also the future. I do not care of Al's post up number per possession. He's been playing in the league for may be 9 years and one of the best post up players but he must not be the future of the team. He is good guy, but not a winner and won't be ever. So i prefer the ball Hayward's hand to make a play with Favors or Kanter. So when Al's gone, Corbin will resign? He's gotta search different ways for the youngsters. Jazz can be just succesful by chemistry between youngsters otherwise just helps the statistic numbers of Al

I don't think the young Jazz players have shown enough for Ty to hand them the reins. The opportunity is there, but both Favors and Hayward have shown a lack of focus and desire. Look at how much Burks and Kanter have done with their opportunities in the offseason and preseason. Why don't Gordon and Derrick seem as hungry?

For several reasons, I don't want Al around next season, but if Gordon and Favors don't step up, the team will take a step backward without a consistent offensive threat in the halfcourt. If the Jazz had a point guard, I wouldn't be worried at all, but they don't.

 

[Hotdog]

What I dont like about Ty, and what was like Sloan too is, that they dont seem to like to let a young guy work through a few mistakes. And fans are like this too. Favors goes 0-5 and its automatically assumed that he cant score. But if Jefferson goes 1-7 like he did the first game, it doesn't effect what the coach does with him. The young guys are always walking on egg shells. Every mistake is magnified, and the result is sitting on the bench. I cant see how this can be helpful to the development of a young player.

Corbin's whole spiel about playing who earns it is complete non sense. Kanter has worked his tail off and plays hard. But it wont change how many minutes he gets. Meanwhile Jefferson does nothing to work on his fitness. You can tell just by looking at his body that he doesn't put in the work. And he'll get all the minutes he wants.

This approach to winning by just inserting the oldest players is just plain idiotic, and is causing damage to our future. Our young core isn't going to progress watching other people play. This isnt the Matrix. You dont just download skill from watching. It takes REPS. Plain and simple. This rule can be applied to everything in life you seek to be good at.