What's new
By:

In light of the Howard trade - Jefferson VS Millsap

Who should we keep after next season?

  • Total voters
    45
Scorpjazz said:
If he [Millsap] were that good, then guarding "stud" PF wouldnt be such a task, since he would be showing that he is also a "stud" PF, which he clearly is not.
Click to expand...

So, all "stud" PFs need to be able to shut down other stud PFs as well as score like one?
Please name three "studs". kthx.

Griffin - can't guard worth dick
Love - can't guard worth dick
Ibaka - can't score like a "stud"
LeBron - a PF? If so, then we have one "stud"
Carmelo - a PF? Still can't guard worth dick
Boozer - LOLOL
Bosh - low on the defensive prowess
Dirk - couldn't guard me
Pau - stud (but struggled with Millsap last year and he isn't getting any younger)

... you get my drift.

Millsap is top 10.
 
DAL - dirk nowitzki 21.6 / 45.7% (vs. jazz 30.7 / 54.2%)
DEN - kenneth faried 10.2 / 58.6% (vs. jazz 8.0 / 50%)
GSW - david lee 20.1 / 50.3% (vs. jazz 20.0 / 50%)
HOU - luis scola 15.5 / 49.1% (vs. jazz 18.0 / 51%)
LAC - blake griffin 20.7 / 54.9% (vs. jazz 21.7 / 52.9%)
LAL - pau gasol 17.4 / 50.1% (vs. jazz 19.5 / 49.1%)
MEM - mareese speights 8.8 / 45.3% (vs. jazz 3.7 / 27.8%)
MIN - kevin love 26.0 / 44.8% (vs. jazz 16.7 / 29.3%)
NOH - jason smith 9.9 / 52% (vs. jazz 12.0 / 57.9%)
OKC - serge ibaka 9.0 / 53.5% (vs. jazz 15.0 / 64.3%)
PHO - channing frye 10.5 / 41.6% (vs. jazz 19.5 / 48.4%)
POR - lamarcus aldridge 21.7 / 51.2% (vs. jazz 26.0 / 52.4%)
SAC - jason thompson 9.1 / 53.5% (vs. jazz 11.8 / 50%)
SAS - tim duncan 15.4 / 49.3% (vs. jazz 15.0 / 43.2%)

so what does that tell us... well first of all, that there are a lot of good PFs in the conference right now. and that's without randolph, who only started 8 games for his club last season.

the only guys there who played significantly better against the jazz than against the rest of their opponents were dirk, serge and frye. scola, smith and aldridge played somewhat better. griffin, pau and jason thompson each scored an extra point or two against the jazz, but did so with less efficiency. the jazz forced subpar play out of kevin love, mareese speights and kenneth faried. david lee and TD were essentially the same vs. the jazz as they were against the rest of the league on a ppg front, although duncan's FG% was much lower.

i'm not going to give paul all the credit here (on the good side or the bad)... but clearly it's a pretty big leap to state that paul can't do the job defensively against other guys at his position. against all but 5-6 of these guys, paul at least holds his own and in some cases shuts them down.

what's more, the ones that do score above their average against the jazz (dirk, frye, serge, scola, smith, aldridge) are pretty much all shooting power forwards. this seems to debunk the statement that paul especially struggles with post defense because of his length. even serge (the only non-shooter in that bunch) only has a higher against-the-jazz average because of that one game in february where he was something like 6-for-6 on 18-foot jumpers. that suggests that most guys who light paul up don't do so just based on length, but rather by punishing paul and the jazz for giving them some daylight while their primary defender helps off them.
 
NAOS said:
So, all "stud" PFs need to be able to shut down other stud PFs as well as score like one?
Please name three "studs". kthx.

Griffin - can't guard worth dick
Love - can't guard worth dick
Ibaka - can't score like a "stud"
LeBron - a PF? If so, then we have one "stud"
Carmelo - a PF? Still can't guard worth dick
Boozer - LOLOL
Bosh - low on the defensive prowess
Dirk - couldn't guard me
Pau - stud (but struggled with Millsap last year and he isn't getting any younger)

... you get my drift.

Millsap is top 10.
Click to expand...

Don't forget boris diaw..... oh wait
 
theNBAnerd said:
sure, on defense... but that's not really what we're arguing here.

what we're arguing is do we want to send derrick+sap into action or derrick+al? that's what this thread is about.derrick's in the picture either way, and i think the offensive/defensive capabilities of derrick+sap are going to make us a better team than derrick+al.
Click to expand...

Yes Favors' in the picture either way. But if you pair Favors+Al, then Al is left guarding those "haywood, blair, przybilla and pekovica" that you mentioned above. While Favors is free to guard the likes of Nowitzki, Love, Aldridge, etc.

On the other hand if you pair Favors+Millsap, then Favors will be guarding ""haywood, blair, przybilla and pekovica" while Millsap is left guarding the likes of Nowitzki, Love, Aldridge, etc. (Millsap is too undersized to guard PFs let alone C's of the WC).

Jazz was in the top half of the league offensively - it's defensively that we have to catch up on. So based on that I know which pair I'd choose.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Yes Favors' in the picture either way. But if you pair Favors+Al, then Al is left guarding those "haywood, blair, przybilla and pekovica" that you mentioned above. While Favors is free to guard the likes of Nowitzki, Love, Aldridge, etc.

On the other hand if you pair Favors+Millsap, then Favors will be guarding ""haywood, blair, przybilla and pekovica" while Millsap is left guarding the likes of Nowitzki, Love, Aldridge, etc. (Millsap is too undersized to guard PFs let alone C's of the WC).
Jazz was in the top half of the league offensively - it's defensively that we have to catch up on. So based on that I know which pair I'd choose.
Click to expand...
that bolded part is not necessarily true at all. you don't think millsap can check blair while favors takes a shot at duncan? you don't think millsap can guard pekovic, whose vertical jump is roughly enough to clear his passport?

besides, even if you were right, i don't like building a team on the logic of "let's pair one really good defender with one below-average defender because then we'll always have someone to guard the lesser big man on the opposing team." favors and sap are both above-average defenders, if they're paired together, ty will find something that will work.
 
NAOS said:
Now imagine what Paul could do defensively when he wasn't coping with a porous perimeter and an inept frontcourt mate!
Click to expand...

yup. especially since the numbers above show that paul struggles to get back to shooters more than he struggles to guard post players, imagine how much easier it will be for paul if he can stay home more often because our perimeter defenders aren't toreros and our "last line of defense" can actually jump.
 
theNBAnerd said:
that bolded part is not necessarily true at all. you don't think millsap can check blair while favors takes a shot at duncan? you don't think millsap can guard pekovic, whose vertical jump is roughly enough to clear his passport?

besides, even if you were right, i don't like building a team on the logic of "let's pair one really good defender with one below-average defender because then we'll always have someone to guard the lesser big man on the opposing team." favors and sap are both above-average defenders, if they're paired together, ty will find something that will work.
Click to expand...

Pekovic is 6'11, 290 lbs. Millsap is 6'8, 253 lbs.

With 3 inches and nearly 40 lbs over Millsap, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Pekovic (a more experienced Kanter IMO) will back down Millsap on the low block all day long for easy baskets.

Edit: My point though is that you can't expect Millsap to pick up the slack & guard opposing Centers just because we'll get Favors to guard the likes of Nowitzki, etc.
 
Last edited:
Hotttnickkk said:
Pekovic is 6'11, 290 lbs. Millsap is 6'8, 253 lbs.

With 3 inches and nearly 40 lbs over Millsap, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Pekovic (a more experienced Kanter IMO) will back down Millsap on the low block all day long for easy baskets.

Edit: My point though is that you can't expect Millsap to pick up the slack & guard opposing Centers just because we'll get Favors to guard the likes of Nowitzki, etc.
Click to expand...

ok, then there's one case where you let favors handle pek and sap guards love. sap has NO problems guarding kevin love anyway.

and therein lies MY point: that if you have two skilled defensive big men who work hard on that side of the floor, you can always find a defensive combination that works. when you have big al, there are going to be times when you can't hide him from having some defensive responsibilities.

that's why my vote in this thread was sap over al. (well that's PART of why.)
 
theNBAnerd said:
ok, then there's one case where you let favors handle pek and sap guards love. sap has NO problems guarding kevin love anyway.

and therein lies MY point: that if you have two skilled defensive big men who work hard on that side of the floor, you can always find a defensive combination that works. when you have big al, there are going to be times when you can't hide him from having some defensive responsibilities.

that's why my vote in this thread was sap over al. (well that's PART of why.)
Click to expand...

Alright, so against the Lakers with Howard and Gasol - if we have a front line of Favors & Millsap, then who's guarding who?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top