"In retrospect, King won the Williams' trade in a landslide."

[Stifle Tower]

Either Mo or Marvin could have been had for trade exception. Or even expiring contract of Okur. So, we could have easily had Marvin as well. Or if KOC just matched Portland offer for Wes, we would have had Wes. KOC could have easily managed the team to have a rotation something like this:

Sorry, the trade exception would NOT have occurred without the Deron trade. Call it serendipity if you like, but NJ was DESPERATE after Lopez went down because they felt Deron would think they weren't interested in winning. That is what enabled KOC to ship out Memo wihtout taking back any salary. So no trade exception without the trade and Lopez injury. Jazz would have let Memo's contract expire. And Okur got hurt; he was worth ZERO after just a couple of weeks.

Without the Deron trade, we would not have had an asset Atlanta wanted (a PG).

And I'm not asserting that a 33 year old Deron can get $33M. But over the course of 4 years, he can EASILY get $7M-$8M or more per year in endorsements in a larger market vs. Utah. And that's an extremely conservative estimate. So in reality, he earns as much in 4 years as he would in 5 in Utah.

You'll never be convinced Deron was not going to re-sign with the Jazz, despite the overwhelming evidence that he would not. Even Carlos Boozer had better things to say than Deron. Carlos mentioned a raise, regardless, which indicated he was just about the money. Deron never said anything similar. And if you recdall, the Jazz DID offer him a 5 year deal when they had the chance. But he chose 3 instead.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I like Deron a lot, but you are kidding yourself if 32 year old Deron is going to be able to get 30 mil a year. It is MUCH MUCH better to be 33 with 30 mil extra than 32 without and look for a new contract. It's enormous difference. Yes, there was a risk. But the reward would have been having the best PG in the League over some bench players. A superstar. How long do you think it is going to take for us to get a player like that again? No one will trade us 28 year old superstar, the best in the position for bench players. We would have to get back into lottery and get very very lucky there to have a player like this again. How many years do you think this will take? That's how many years this trade just set us back.

Chris Paul, basically same quality as Deron, just got traded for Eric Gordon, who is younger at 23 and already averaged 22 ppg + lottery picks and scrubs. And everyone said LA Clips still won. We didn't get anywhere near that quality. King plain and simple raped KOC.

I'm sure you have a great explanation for the reasons Deron signed the shortest deal available to him when his rookie contract expired. The chances that he was going to resign with Utah were minimal at best, despite your imaginations. There's no doubt that the Nets saved themselves in this deal by talking him into signing, though. The trade would have been a nightmare embarrassment for them if they hadn't pulled that off.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I'm sure you have a great explanation for the reasons Deron signed the shortest deal available to him when his rookie contract expired. The chances that he was going to resign with Utah were minimal at best, despite your imaginations. There's no doubt that the Nets saved themselves in this deal by talking him into signing, though. The trade would have been a nightmare embarrassment for them if they hadn't pulled that off.

An extra $30M PLUS the bright lights of New York PLUS the additional endorsement money he gets from playing in Crooklyn = re-signing with the Nets vs. returning to Dallas as the home town hero. Make no mistake: his original intent was to play out his contract and then go to Dallas and form a big-3 with Nowitzki and Howard. Being traded to New Jersey opened up a different alternative: earning even more money by playing in New York. I think Deron felt a bit betrayed by Howard's decision to remain in Orlando. And that decision also affected Utah. KOC had a deal in place to free up salary space for Brooklyn via trading CJ and/or Raja and possibly Howard.

Credit Brooklyn for telling Orlando's new GM to go pound sand. He wanted too much for Dwight and wasn't interested in pulling the trigger. So the Nets go with Lopez and Humphries instead, while adding Johnson and Wallace. Personally, I don't think that lineup has a shot at a title, but it does make the Nets relevant again and will fill the seats at their new arena.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

What are the odds DWill's trick wrist flares up and this dude changes his mind.
When all involved players are out of the league, let's revisit this.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

DWill plays at a high level and is a complete PG. The problem is that having a player like that doesn't always translate to more wins or playoff wins if the rest of the team isn't built out around him. The jury is out on whether a team with a max-paid PG can really contend. Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Payton, Kidd, Iverson, and Billups got to the finals 9x combined, but only Billups got a ring out of it.

 

[margodydek]

The Nets played most of the previous season without Deron, and almost all of last season without Brook Lopez.

The vast majority of the time, the team that gets the best player "wins" the trade if you are so small-minded you have to look at this in such a light.

This is true if you live in a vacuum.

 

[UGLI baby]

This is true if you live in a vacuum.

That would suck.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

 

[framer]

Not so certain that Favors won't be a more valuable piece than Deron when all is said and done. I wonder if we would have taken Lopez instead of Favors in that deal. If the Nets had what they have and swapped Lopez for Favors, that would be something. Lopez is a big boring ball of injured, non-rebounding suck. The fact that his a considered a top big man prospect says more about the NBA than it does about him.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Well, who is better? Rose was, but with tearing 2 tenons in his knee, he will be lucky to be an all star again. It's between Paul and Deron, and argument can be made either way. Westbrook is slightly behind. Irving may surpass him at some point, but as of now, yeah Deron has to be either the best or #2 in the League at worst after Paul.

Ignoring Rose due to injury, I'd rather have Paul, Westbrook and maybe Rondo...and sorry but Nash and Parker are better. Nash needs no explaining. And it's about time Parker's gotten the credit he deserves.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Duhron has been underwhelming the past 2 seasons. Some of it may be due to his surrounding cast. Some of it due to being disinterested because his team was losing so much. After about 3 years, Deron seemed to fall in love with his dribbling...call it Arroyo-itis. I hated when he'd take 10-15 seconds to see if anyone would bite on his crossover. Yes, he's got a great one, btu use it in spots, man, not every time down court. And he's turned into a bit of a chucker, trying to keep his scoring on pace with CP3.

 

[Borat]

Sorry, the trade exception would NOT have occurred without the Deron trade. Call it serendipity if you like, but NJ was DESPERATE after Lopez went down because they felt Deron would think they weren't interested in winning. That is what enabled KOC to ship out Memo wihtout taking back any salary. So no trade exception without the trade and Lopez injury. Jazz would have let Memo's contract expire. And Okur got hurt; he was worth ZERO after just a couple of weeks.

Without the Deron trade, we would not have had an asset Atlanta wanted (a PG).

And I'm not asserting that a 33 year old Deron can get $33M. But over the course of 4 years, he can EASILY get $7M-$8M or more per year in endorsements in a larger market vs. Utah. And that's an extremely conservative estimate. So in reality, he earns as much in 4 years as he would in 5 in Utah.

You'll never be convinced Deron was not going to re-sign with the Jazz, despite the overwhelming evidence that he would not. Even Carlos Boozer had better things to say than Deron. Carlos mentioned a raise, regardless, which indicated he was just about the money. Deron never said anything similar. And if you recdall, the Jazz DID offer him a 5 year deal when they had the chance. But he chose 3 instead.

Okur's expiring contract was an asset, and Atlanta did not need a PG, they needed to clear up CAP space first and foremost. So, no, you can't just say we would have lost that asset for nothing. And if you are suggesting that Deron would have made up 30 mil in Dallas over Utah in 4 years, you are dreaming. Besides, Howard did not come to Dallas to form that big three you made up. Dirk is getting old too. KOC just needed some balls to let the situation play out and then get a great chance at League's top PG. Instead, he played it safe and picked up bunch of back-ups, making King big winner of this lopsided trade. He didn't even wait for a better offer. At least NO got Eric Gordon, a rising star, for similar player (Paul). KOC got back-ups. What a failure. And you did not answer when you think next time we are going to get a top player in his position, a true superstar. It's not that easy, and it will be years before/if we get back to where we could have been already right now. This trade may have easily set us back 5-10 years. Just a disaster of a move, no matter how you spin it.

 

[NotDeadYet]

If the Nets succeed in bringing in Dwight Howard to team with DWill, then I'd say they won the trade. Until then, they're a capped-out, lux-tax paying team that's going to go out in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs. In other words, they'll plateau where the Jazz did before we traded DWill. The Jazz needed to rebuild if they wanted to go deeper in the playoffs. The Jazz basically did 75% of that rebuild with the Nets trade alone. So I don't think you can say the Jazz lost that trade, whether or not DWill was going to re-sign in Utah. Honestly, I don't think the front office wanted to keep DWill and his attitude at max money.

Exactly why we HAD to trade DWill. That trade enabled us to rebuilt far more quickly, and it was getting obvious w/o going into FA frenzy we were NOT going deep into the playoffs even WITH DWill. That trade was a rare opportunity, and KoC recognized that...

 

[Scorpjazz]

DWill plays at a high level and is a complete PG. The problem is that having a player like that doesn't always translate to more wins or playoff wins if the rest of the team isn't built out around him. The jury is out on whether a team with a max-paid PG can really contend. Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Payton, Kidd, Iverson, and Billups got to the finals 9x combined, but only Billups got a ring out of it.

This.
PG is the WORST position to have a max guy at. You need a servicable PG, stars elsewhere. Not the opposite.

 

[Borat]

Exactly why we HAD to trade DWill. That trade enabled us to rebuilt far more quickly, and it was getting obvious w/o going into FA frenzy we were NOT going deep into the playoffs even WITH DWill. That trade was a rare opportunity, and KoC recognized that...

How exactly did it enable us to rebuild? We lost a superstar for bench players. How is that rebuilding? NO, on the other hand got young star in return for Paul, then tanked the season and got Davis. Now, that's rebuilding. How is getting bench players for a superstar is rebuilding?

 

[Former Member]

How exactly did it enable us to rebuild? We lost a superstar for bench players. How is that rebuilding? NO, on the other hand got young star in return for Paul, then tanked the season and got Davis. Now, that's rebuilding. How is getting bench players for a superstar is rebuilding?

We also got a young star (favors) and a high draft pick (Kanter). The only reason Favors is a "bench player" is because we are a better team then the New Orleans Hornets.

 

[Borat]

We also got a young star (favors) and a high draft pick (Kanter). The only reason Favors is a "bench player" is because we are a better team then the New Orleans Hornets.

Favors is bench player, because he lost his starting job to Millsap, and Millsap is not a star by any stretch of imagination. Favors is not a young star. He made marginal improvements in his second year, but he FAR FAR removed from being a star. Eric Gordon scored 17 points in his rookie season as a 20 year old and followed it up with 22 ppg next year. That's a young star. And even with NO getting a guy like this back, Clips got a great deal. We got back a guy who was 8 ppg in first year, and 9 ppg in second year. And our high draft pick is Kanter. I haven't see any star qualities yet - not in the first year, not in the summer League. We got scrubs in return for a star, and basically got raped violently as a result. This is not rebuilding, all right. It is basically being set back 5-10 years.

 

[margodydek]

Favors is bench player, because he lost his starting job to Millsap, and Millsap is not a star by any stretch of imagination. Favors is not a young star. He made marginal improvements in his second year, but he FAR FAR removed from being a star. Eric Gordon scored 17 points in his rookie season as a 20 year old and followed it up with 22 ppg next year. That's a young star. And even with NO getting a guy like this back, Clips got a great deal. We got back a guy who was 8 ppg in first year, and 9 ppg in second year. And our high draft pick is Kanter. I haven't see any star qualities yet - not in the first year, not in the summer League. We got scrubs in return for a star, and basically got raped violently as a result. This is not rebuilding, all right. It is basically being set back 5-10 years.

Go check out Bynum's first 3 years. It's an overused cliche, but big men need more time to develop. Most Jazz fans think that Favors can get to Bynum's level, and I guarantee you that 30 GMs in the league would take Bynum over Gordon.

 

[Brown Notes]

People assessing this trade as a complete win for the Nets might want to check the scoreboard. Nets didn't get 2007 conference finals Deron, they got 2010 grumpy Deron complete with gimpy wrist.

He could very well redeem himself, but so far he certainly has not.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

This.
PG is the WORST position to have a max guy at. You need a servicable PG, stars elsewhere. Not the opposite.

Not quite a universal truth, see for example:

Steve Nash
Derrick Rose
Tony Parker
John Stockton
Magic Johnson
Jason Kidd

You can certainly win without a star, or max, PG, but you can also win with a star, or max, PG.