What's new
By:

In Which the Utah Jazz tango with the Cleveland Cavaliers Fri, Feb 28 5:30 MT

kabenac said:
Laterally, Burke is not quick. He's mediocre. On All-Star weekend when he ran the court in the challenge with Lillard, I was surprised by how fast Burke ran the court. I think he can improve on his lateral quickness. And as far as taking the ball to the basket, there's no excuse. The guy should be driving to the hoop. As someone else already mentioned, Corbin isn't helping Burke one bit.

As a point of reference, It would be interesting to see how Williams would have played under Corbin.
Click to expand...

Having watched Chris Paul early in his career he was equally as bad a defender in his 1st few years(really until he came back from the Olympics). He didn't play that end with any passion, let guys get by him with ease many defensives possession, was out of position a lot and gambled way too much. He's defense was being overrated because of his steals total. Honestly Paul still isn't as great as he's giving credit for on defense.

I agree Burke is settling for too many jumpers. However he's not Westbrook, Rose, Wall or even Burks for that matter. He doesn't have the size and/or explosiveness to drive to the basket and finish in traffic all the time every time. Unlike those guys Trey needs to have options when he drives. He needs to be able to pass or keep his dribble alive if he doesn't have the space to finish. This again isn't unlike many smaller mildly athletic PG's the aforementioned Paul being one of those guards. Now Chris has gotten better at making tough layups with skill and Trey will have to do the same to be a big time PG (and knowing his work ethics I believe he will). Being a willing skilled passer at any time is what makes Paul so great and so fun to play with and Burke IMO can be have a similar impact. However the biggest correction in this department has to be made by the coaching staff and they have to allow Trey to initiate the offense and not have Trey driving be the third or fourth option on any given play that's far too late in the possession to expect consistent success at this point of his career.
 
The Thriller said:
If we are merely going to use our PG as a jump shooter, we might as well sign Jimmer. He's a far better jump shooter. Trey doesn't play any defense, create, pass, or get to the free throw line. If anything, maybe Jimmer could get to the FT line or something.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that Jimmer fits this scheme better than Trey does. Though logically how would Jimmer get fouled more than Burke if he's going to be use in the very same capacity?
 
I think Burke has low vision for a pg. I've now seen him blow enough fast break easy passes and missed cutters to come this realization.

He is small, slow, can't finish in the lane (not that he ever gets there anyway), is arguably the worst defender on the team, can't get to the ft line, can't find the open man if not in a set designated play, and can't shoot.

We have all been talking Gordons slump but Trey's play for the last few months is more worrisome to me long term.

Sent from the JazzFanz app
 
I'm embarrassed when I look at the score. Cavs had players out and hurt and we still got creamed. I don't know if I'm more pissed about our bad defense/rebounding, or terrible offense, or the awful minute allocation. If Corbin is kept for the future I don't know what I'm gonna do
 
Crawlnstall said:
I'm embarrassed when I look at the score. Cavs had players out and hurt and we still got creamed. I don't know if I'm more pissed about our bad defense/rebounding, or terrible offense, or the awful minute allocation. If Corbin is kept for the future I don't know what I'm gonna do
Click to expand...

Lol.
 
jope said:
I think Burke has low vision for a pg. I've now seen him blow enough fast break easy passes and missed cutters to come this realization.

He is small, slow, can't finish in the lane (not that he ever gets there anyway), is arguably the worst defender on the team, can't get to the ft line, can't find the open man if not in a set designated play, and can't shoot.

We have all been talking Gordons slump but Trey's play for the last few months is more worrisome to me long term.

Sent from the JazzFanz app
Click to expand...

Certainly looks underwhelming, but I'm willing to give him another season with a real coach and a structured offense. We have also seen brilliance with him in flashes.
 
jope said:
I think Burke has low vision for a pg. I've now seen him blow enough fast break easy passes and missed cutters to come this realization.

He is small, slow, can't finish in the lane (not that he ever gets there anyway), is arguably the worst defender on the team, can't get to the ft line, can't find the open man if not in a set designated play, and can't shoot.

We have all been talking Gordons slump but Trey's play for the last few months is more worrisome to me long term.

Sent from the JazzFanz app
Click to expand...

to elaborate on this...

out of 33 pgs {and 69 total guards} to start at least 20 games this season:

trey is 32nd of 33 in PER (12.8) {56 of 69 total starting guards}
33rd of 33 in TS% (46.6%) {68th of 69 total guards}
30 of 33 in FT rate (1.7/36 mins) {61 of 69}
22 of 33 in AST rate (6.3/36 mins)
 
jope said:
to elaborate on this...

out of 33 pgs {and 69 total guards} to start at least 20 games this season:

trey is 32nd of 33 in PER (12.8) {56 of 69 total starting guards}
33rd of 33 in TS% (46.6%) {68th of 69 total guards}
30 of 33 in FT rate (1.7/36 mins) {61 of 69}
22 of 33 in AST rate (6.3/36 mins)
Click to expand...

I don't know where you are getting your informations from but nba.com has 79 guards who started at least 20 times.

He is 21st in AST Ratio(26.5), 15th in TO Ratio(8.8) and 8th in AST/TO Ratio(3.00) . So his playmaking and decisionmaking is definitly not bad. His defense, shooting and lack of agression to get in the paint is a problem doe. At least he started to take some shots at the rim again. Since the All-Star brake he took 14 shots at the rim and made 8 of those. He ain't no Alec but the number is higher than Gordon's 11. So I would say he got the memo.
 
Primetime said:
I don't know where you are getting your informations from but nba.com has 79 guards who started at least 20 times.

He is 21st in AST Ratio(26.5), 15th in TO Ratio(8.8) and 8th in AST/TO Ratio(3.00) . So his playmaking and decisionmaking is definitly not bad. His defense, shooting and lack of agression to get in the paint is a problem doe. At least he started to take some shots at the rim again. Since the All-Star brake he took 14 shots at the rim and made 8 of those. He ain't no Alec but the number is higher than Gordon's 11. So I would say he got the memo.
Click to expand...

Got from bbref which excluded the 'guard-forwards', hence the discrepancy 69 total to 79 total. I have feeling treys to's are so low because he rarely gets into the lane or tries to make tough passes. He is quite conservative, which is good and bad I guess.
 
Primetime said:
I don't know where you are getting your informations from but nba.com has 79 guards who started at least 20 times.

He is 21st in AST Ratio(26.5), 15th in TO Ratio(8.8) and 8th in AST/TO Ratio(3.00) . So his playmaking and decisionmaking is definitly not bad. His defense, shooting and lack of agression to get in the paint is a problem doe. At least he started to take some shots at the rim again. Since the All-Star brake he took 14 shots at the rim and made 8 of those. He ain't no Alec but the number is higher than Gordon's 11. So I would say he got the memo.
Click to expand...

jope is completely missing the point. Trey within the system hasn't been given the chances to be the PG since Hayward has been playing. Saying he has bad vision, can't shoot, and/or is slow is one thing. Using his lack of stats as a point of reference makes no sense when the point of the argument is he isn't given the chance to make plays or get to the FT line. Go back and look at his early highlights and tell me he has poor play making skills.
 
da ThRONe said:
jope is completely missing the point. Trey within the system hasn't been given the chances to be the PG since Hayward has been playing. Saying he has bad vision, can't shoot, and/or is slow is one thing. Using his lack of stats as a point of reference makes no sense when the point of the argument is he isn't given the chance to make plays or get to the FT line. Go back and look at his early highlights and tell me he has poor play making skills.
Click to expand...

Look. I get his usage isn't as high as it could be. But in this league, if you can't get into the lane you won't be able to create much. Teams have planned and adjusted and now easily keep him out of the Paint. Getting into the paint is critical for higher % shots and drawing defenders for easier shots for others. Its not Completely the systems fault trey can't beat his man and/or the helper and get in the lane and make something happen. Thats on trey.
 
jope said:
Look. I get his usage isn't as high as it could be. But in this league, if you can't get into the lane you won't be able to create much. Teams have planned and adjusted and now easily keep him out of the Paint. Getting into the paint is critical for higher % shots and drawing defenders for easier shots for others. Its not Completely the systems fault trey can't beat his man and/or the helper and get in the lane and make something happen. Thats on trey.
Click to expand...

Agree to disagree. I haven't seen one thing that defenses have done differently that Burke's didn't see early when he was having greater stats. Again you can't put pressure on the d if you aren't allowed to in the structure of the offense. I've seen Trey put enough pressure on teams.
 
So, we bitch when we win because we hurt the tank and bitch when we lose because our team didn't play well.

Alrighty then.
 
da ThRONe said:
jope is completely missing the point. Trey within the system hasn't been given the chances to be the PG since Hayward has been playing. Saying he has bad vision, can't shoot, and/or is slow is one thing. Using his lack of stats as a point of reference makes no sense when the point of the argument is he isn't given the chance to make plays or get to the FT line. Go back and look at his early highlights and tell me he has poor play making skills.
Click to expand...

Corbin is holding everyone back.

Sent from the JazzFanz app
 
da ThRONe said:
This should be the case every game not just blow out. They should all start and get major mins together. At this point what reason is there not to develop the young guys together? DL should demand to see those guy all play together so he knows what areas he needs to address.
Click to expand...

Got to showcase Jefferson and marvin for possible trades..............
 
da ThRONe said:
I'm not a Jazz fan.

To my point you guys should be developing the "Core 5". If the C5 all get 35+ mins that's a win whether you are rooting for the tank or not. Likewise when the C5 is getting less than 30 mins(barring foul trouble) that's a lost IMO again whether or not you want the team to lose.
Click to expand...

This guy gets it
 
Vermin said:
Certainly looks underwhelming, but I'm willing to give him another season with a real coach and a structured offense. We have also seen brilliance with him in flashes.
Click to expand...

This.

One good thing I feel we have learned about trey this year is that he seems to play better when the game is on the line at the end.
Has that clutch gene......... but ya there are also lots of concerns too, but like vermin said, lets see how he does with a real coach next year
 
jope said:
We have all been talking Gordons slump but Trey's play for the last few months is more worrisome to me long term.
Click to expand...

That's because Gordon is supposed to be the Jazz's best player and has played the most minutes on this team by a mile. You're more worried about a rookie's troubles long-term than a 4th year player's (who is up for a huge payday that could force the Jazz into a bad financial decision or allow him to walk without compensation)? Pardon my being blunt, but that is straight up ****ing stupid.
 
I have extreme ambivalence about this team. Is anyone excited about Alec Burks being your team's best player? It seems to me that 24 straight losses from here on out has a better chance to break this team out of it's flat-lining trajectory so I'm going to continue to hope for that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top