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Iraq Is Cracking Apart

I'm pretty sure the government of Hussein was responsible for tens of thousands of deaths of tens of thousands. Maybe counting the war with Iran, ten times that. But we were responsible for him being the honcho there in the first place. We simply don't have any way to know how many people would die unjustly if we just stayed home and reduced our government to an non-issue. We do know that Russia, under Stalion, killed tens of millions. China under Mao killed more, Hitler and the Japanese militarist clique killed millions more.

I might not think we're doing things right, but I'm pretty sure that other nations, not having some of our "high ideals" would do worse.

I think we should change our principles, our foreign policy, away from cartel economics and actually promote human rights. . . that means, smaller governments worldwide with less booty to merchandise for our "favors". We should shame all the honchos with our media, and we should have military strength ten times what anyone else can afford.. .. .

Just sayin' . . . . .
 
America can't protect human rights out of its borders. This is against their interests. Your government is feeding on the elimination of possible contenders worldwide on any platform, if not, getting it to itself, exploiting resources, so that they can keep their motor running. That is the top side of the US compared to the prior empires. They act like they care about human rights, but they actually don't give a crap and look down on the rest of the world. Saving your presence.
 
addictionary said:
America can't protect human rights out of its borders. This is against their interests. Your government is feeding on the elimination of possible contenders worldwide on any platform, if not, getting it to itself, exploiting resources, so that they can keep their motor running. That is the top side of the US compared to the prior empires. They act like they care about human rights, but they actually don't give a crap and look down on the rest of the world. Saving your presence.
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Please don't associate the morals of DC with the average American.
 
What I find very interesting in this crisis is how this is linning up everyone on the Iraqi governments side. So far it looks like America, Britain, Turkey, Iran, Syria and the Kurds are all throwing their support behind the Iraqi government.

Kurds have deployed forces in the north of Iraq, Iran has beefed up its border and reports are circulating of Iranian generals in Baghdad coordinating a ground assault with Shia militias. Iraqi government is trying to persuad America to launch airstrikes to support the ground forces.

That would be an interesting twist. American airstrikes to assist Iranian lead ground forces.
 
Is there anyone here from either side of the political spectrum who thought this was going to end any other way?

I mean, most of these insurgents function on timelines that us in the Western world fail to understand. They're willing to spend decades waiting on the sidelines until the proper opportunity presents itself. That war was a complete waste of time, money and, most importantly, men and women from around the world who died for it.

The exact same thing will happen in Afghanistan.
 
VINYLONE said:
Is there anyone here from either side of the political spectrum who thought this was going to end any other way?

I mean, most of these insurgents function on timelines that us in the Western world fail to understand. They're willing to spend decades waiting on the sidelines until the proper opportunity presents itself. That war was a complete waste of time, money and, most importantly, men and women from around the world who died for it.

The exact same thing will happen in Afghanistan.
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i agree.

i hope we never get involved in the middle east again
 
Stoked said:
What I find very interesting in this crisis is how this is linning up everyone on the Iraqi governments side. So far it looks like America, Britain, Turkey, Iran, Syria and the Kurds are all throwing their support behind the Iraqi government.

Kurds have deployed forces in the north of Iraq, Iran has beefed up its border and reports are circulating of Iranian generals in Baghdad coordinating a ground assault with Shia militias. Iraqi government is trying to persuad America to launch airstrikes to support the ground forces.

That would be an interesting twist. American airstrikes to assist Iranian lead ground forces.
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Yes it would be shocking but most countries worry about their own self interest. Iranians worked with the US in Afghanistan too because the Taliban is an enemy of the Shia Muslims.
 
cowhide said:
How about anywhere?
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anywhere is a pretty big place.

i think we should continue to get involved with countries that can and will actually do something for us in return.
also with countries where helping them actually makes a difference.

seems like helping afganistan and iraq doesnt change anything once we leave and its extremely unlikely that those countries will ever come to our aid if we need help
 
VINYLONE said:
Is there anyone here from either side of the political spectrum who thought this was going to end any other way?

I mean, most of these insurgents function on timelines that us in the Western world fail to understand. They're willing to spend decades waiting on the sidelines until the proper opportunity presents itself. That war was a complete waste of time, money and, most importantly, men and women from around the world who died for it.

The exact same thing will happen in Afghanistan.
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Actually most republicans and several democrats must have because they voted for the stupid war. I along with 32 percent of the population and a handful of democrats were worried about this actually happening. I am not that surprised. I am more surprised it took this long. Unfortunately, America's foreign policy seems to be littered with many examples of things not turning out the way the US wants them to be. You would think that we would learn from our mistakes and stop going to foreign lands and invading countries. We have a hard enough time running our own country let alone some other country.
 
fishonjazz said:
anywhere is a pretty big place.

i think we should continue to get involved with countries that can and will actually do something for us in return.
also with countries where helping them actually makes a difference.

seems like helping afganistan and iraq doesnt change anything once we leave and its extremely unlikely that those countries will ever come to our aid if we need help
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I agree. To just say don't get involved anywhere ever again is awefully blind to the modern world. The best we can do is get better at picking our battles and not try to fight every single fight. Especially in the middle east.

But there are absolutely peoples/countries I would want to go to bat for under the right circumstances.
 
The Kurds used this crisis as an oportunity to take Kirkuk when the government forces fled. They have long wanted it under their control and now they have it. I think it would take force for them to give it up now.
 
Stoked said:
The Kurds used this crisis as an oportunity to take Kirkuk when the government forces fled. They have long wanted it under their control and now they have it. I think it would take force for them to give it up now.
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Kurdistan is becoming a reality. ISIS could be enough for the Turks to warm up to the idea. A Kurdistan that drew it's territory exclusively from what is now Iraq could prove to be a nice buffer for Turkey from the crazies.
 
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