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Is Favors in the long-term plans at this point?

Tabasco said:
And please tell me, oh wise one, what has your deeply sophisticated analysis been? That tabasco sauce isn't hot?Thats some deep stuff there. Oh wait, and something about Russell Westbrook not being very good. Both really quality observations. Well done.
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You aren't very good at this. And if you're trolling, you aren't very good at that either; it's not particularly upsetting, just sad.
 
gomretat said:
I am willing to bet my house they are more aware of what is going on then anyone on this board and also that they have a better idea of cause and effect then we do. I also trust their judgment in how to proceed. But then I happen to be one who has a lot of trust in Quinn and DL.
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I have no illusions that DL/Quin/the FO are much more knowledgeable at basketball than any of us here. This doesn't mean they will always be right and we will always be wrong(when there is disagreement with the chosen course of action).

I've been harping on about how horrible Rubio's fit with this team would be for years before we actually traded for him(when the random "lets trade for Rubio" thread would pop up), I called it out when we traded for him, I called it out during the FIBA Euro when Rubio looked like he was seeing ghost around the rim, I called it out in pre-season, when people here laughed at me when I said Exum will take his spot at some point during the season and at this point I have no doubt he would have had he not gotten injured, I keep calling it out right now. To me it was so damn obvious. Like... you need to be blind not to see the problems it presents conceptually with our roster and with our system. He's the complete polar opposite to what fits in our system offensively. And throughout all this the FO never seemed to be even slightly concerned about Rubio-Gobert fit, about 3 non-shooters on the floor together. DL called Rubio 2017 facsimile of Jason Kidd for our system FFS.

And now when it is becoming clearer and clearer that this is not working you know what they are doing? They pull Favors out first(2-3 minutes into the game)! They double down on Rubio-Gobert! Instead of leaving Favors who is better fit with Rubio(still not great) to play with Rubio longer and make Gobert play with better floor spacers they pull the combo that has somewhat worked in the absence of Gobert and they play predominantly the combo that conceptually doesn't work and more than that - with every passing game gets proven to not work not only conceptually but in practice, too.

So yeah, forgive me for not trusting them with their management of Rubio lineups.

If it were me, I'd swallow my pride and trade Rubio for free the first chance I get. The first team that can give me an expiring for Rubio gets him, I'm shipping him out and hoping to be a player on the free agency market(once we lose Favors).
 
stitches said:
I have no illusions that DL/Quin/the FO are much more knowledgeable at basketball than any of us here. This doesn't mean they will always be right and we will always be wrong(when there is disagreement with the chosen course of action).

I've been harping on about how horrible Rubio's fit with this team would be for years before we actually traded for him(when the random "lets trade for Rubio" thread would pop up), I called it out when we traded for him, I called it out during the FIBA Euro when Rubio looked like he was seeing ghost around the rim, I called it out in pre-season, when people here laughed at me when I said Exum will take his spot at some point during the season and at this point I have no doubt he would have had he not gotten injured, I keep calling it out right now. To me it was so damn obvious. Like... you need to be blind not to see the problems it presents conceptually with our roster and with our system. He's the complete polar opposite to what fits in our system offensively. And throughout all this the FO never seemed to be even slightly concerned about Rubio-Gobert fit, about 3 non-shooters on the floor together. DL called Rubio 2017 facsimile of Jason Kidd for our system FFS.

And now when it is becoming clearer and clearer that this is not working you know what they are doing? They pull Favors out first(2-3 minutes into the game)! They double down on Rubio-Gobert! Instead of leaving Favors who is better fit with Rubio(still not great) to play with Rubio longer and make Gobert play with better floor spacers they pull the combo that has somewhat worked in the absence of Gobert and they play predominantly the combo that conceptually doesn't work and more than that - with every passing game gets proven to not work not only conceptually but in practice, too.

So yeah, forgive me for not trusting them with their management of Rubio lineups.

If it were me, I'd swallow my pride and trade Rubio for free the first chance I get. The first team that can give me an expiring for Rubio gets him, I'm shipping him out and hoping to be a player on the free agency market(once we lose Favors).
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I agree 100%

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I just ran the numbers and disclaimers for small samples still apply but here we go:

(by NBAwowy)
Rubio+Favors-Gobert: +2.0 (497 possessions)
Rubio+Gobert-Favors: +7.0 (257 possessions)
Favors+Gobert-Rubio: +22.6 (71 possessions)
Rubio+Favors+Gobert -14.2 (478 possessions)

Worth pointing out that this sample is severely skewed by the whooping we gave to WAS(a game where Rubio-Gobert had about 10% of their season possessions together without Favors and had an insane net rating of +86.4, if you take that game out that combo is still negative), but still... I guess we need to give Rubio-Gobert(no Favors) lineups a chance to see if they can work...
 
stitches said:
I have no illusions that DL/Quin/the FO are much more knowledgeable at basketball than any of us here. This doesn't mean they will always be right and we will always be wrong(when there is disagreement with the chosen course of action).

I've been harping on about how horrible Rubio's fit with this team would be for years before we actually traded for him(when the random "lets trade for Rubio" thread would pop up), I called it out when we traded for him, I called it out during the FIBA Euro when Rubio looked like he was seeing ghost around the rim, I called it out in pre-season, when people here laughed at me when I said Exum will take his spot at some point during the season and at this point I have no doubt he would have had he not gotten injured, I keep calling it out right now. To me it was so damn obvious. Like... you need to be blind not to see the problems it presents conceptually with our roster and with our system. He's the complete polar opposite to what fits in our system offensively. And throughout all this the FO never seemed to be even slightly concerned about Rubio-Gobert fit, about 3 non-shooters on the floor together. DL called Rubio 2017 facsimile of Jason Kidd for our system FFS.

And now when it is becoming clearer and clearer that this is not working you know what they are doing? They pull Favors out first(2-3 minutes into the game)! They double down on Rubio-Gobert! Instead of leaving Favors who is better fit with Rubio(still not great) to play with Rubio longer and make Gobert play with better floor spacers they pull the combo that has somewhat worked in the absence of Gobert and they play predominantly the combo that conceptually doesn't work and more than that - with every passing game gets proven to not work not only conceptually but in practice, too.

So yeah, forgive me for not trusting them with their management of Rubio lineups.

If it were me, I'd swallow my pride and trade Rubio for free the first chance I get. The first team that can give me an expiring for Rubio gets him, I'm shipping him out and hoping to be a player on the free agency market(once we lose Favors).
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So many people don’t understand that the worst thing you can do when you’ve made a mistake is double down and say “well we traded a first for this guy we can’t give up on him now” making decisions based on sink costs is such a common mistake.

Also if you know you are going to make a change or need to... then don’t delay. Make the change and move forward.

I think here are a lot of reasonable deals we could put Rubio in and that we should do it now if we value winning this year.
 
I also don't like the narrative that DM can't run a team and it is too much for him. Ingles, Hood, and DM can run the team together. Joe Ingles in the halfcourt is great running PnR and can get guys into their spots. We move the ball so much that having a traditional point guard is not in our best interest. Moving DM to the PG allows us to get more of our wings, which we have good depth in, and gets a ton more shooting on the floor. DM, Hood, Ingles, Jerebko, Gobert starting 5 is gonna be tough to guard even if DM "can't run a team" at this point.
 
I still think the most logical answer to the Favors thing is to wait til Nikola Mirotic becomes trade eligible and do that.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I still think the most logical answer to the Favors thing is to wait til Nikola Mirotic becomes trade eligible and do that.
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We don’t really need a stretch four unless we move one of Thabo/Jonas, but I guess if we failed to get something better I’m fine with that. His contract has value during draft time if trades become available. I don’t know that anyone is picking up his option next year.
 
We can't do anything with Favors until we know what we are doing with Rubio and Hood.

Favors paired with those 2 could make for a very nice offer. Favors paired with one of them is still a pretty big offer. Favors by himself can get us a decent return.

We know Favors needs to be traded, but we need to know who else might be too.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
We don’t really need a stretch four unless we move one of Thabo/Jonas, but I guess if we failed to get something better I’m fine with that. His contract has value during draft time if trades become available. I don’t know that anyone is picking up his option next year.
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Yes we do. Jonas has never been a consistent starter in his career.
 
radiohegel said:
No. I'm pointing to the current underperformance of their little conglomeration of superstars.

As a real response, though, you are either arguing that Rudy Gobert isn't a franchise player because he can't play at his maximal level regardless of the pieces surrounding him, or making a wildly exaggerated claim based on nothing but massive hyperbole. Given the first interpretation, what you are contributing is simply an unbelievably dumb argument. Sadly, the second interpretation is even less sophisticated. All of this is rather unsurprising, however, given the complete lack of quality in your analysis on this issue.
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Someone call the burn unit.
 
Tabasco said:
And please tell me, oh wise one, what has your deeply sophisticated analysis been? That tabasco sauce isn't hot?Thats some deep stuff there. Oh wait, and something about Russell Westbrook not being very good. Both really quality observations. Well done.

Back to the jazz, the results will speak for themselves over the next few weeks. I would absolutely love it if Gobert averaged 30 points and 20 rebounds and we went undefeated the rest of the year. I'm a Jazz fan, I would gladly eat my words in exchange for team success. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I will be proven right on this issue.
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Don't worry, you won't be.

Also, Westbrook is a turd covered in gold. He doesn't make the players around him better. I actually can't think of a single situation where he clearly had a positive effect on the play of his teammates.
 
LoPo said:
We can't do anything with Favors until we know what we are doing with Rubio and Hood.

Favors paired with those 2 could make for a very nice offer. Favors paired with one of them is still a pretty big offer. Favors by himself can get us a decent return.

We know Favors needs to be traded, but we need to know who else might be too.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
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Jazz are keeping Hood. I don't think a team who struggles to score is going to trade one of the few shot creators they have.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yes we do. Jonas has never been a consistent starter in his career.
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I think Thabo+Jonas+Joe Jesus is good enough for stretch 4s. Jonas has been great as a starter for us. Niko has been a starter, but not a long history there either.

I think we could get Teletovic and DJ Wilson for Favs and I think I'd prefer that deal. Again though... if Jan 15th rolls around I would not be opposed to Niko... just not sure how much of a team first guy he is and Jonas stayed ready to play and delivered when we brought him in.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Jazz are keeping Hood. I don't think a team who struggles to score is going to trade one of the few shot creators they have.
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He also doesn't play and might get a huge payday just because. Ronnie Brewer-ing his *** is totally on the table for me. I just have no idea what I'm getting from Hood the basketball player between his being soft physically and mentally, or his never-ending mystery injuries.
 
Mirotic
 
LoPo said:
If that is the case, then so be it. Now, are we keeping Rubio?

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Yeah, I'd assume so. Rubio is probably really hard to trade and get something of value, or even something cap relief, in return. They will probably trade Favors and hope Rubio figures it out in the new lineup post-Favors.
 
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