Beer
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming this is not the end as there seem to be different things happening all over france. Or the media is jumping the gun reporting on things they don't really know about.
Islamists kill 12 people in France during attack on newspaper office.
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I'm assuming this is not the end as there seem to be different things happening all over france. Or the media is jumping the gun reporting on things they don't really know about.
To be honest I am surprised that Europe has not seen a surge in acts like this. I don't mean these isolated events.
But something like a half dozen a day all over the place at completely random places. Schools, malls, offices, train stations, buses, museums, parks, hospitals...big cities and small towns. A coordinated effort to overwhelm the system.
Thank the Lord that these nut jobs are to busy fighting among themselves to ever get truly organized.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner! It doesn't matter how many gun laws there are or how strict they are, criminals aren't going to obey them. I have no idea why liberals can't understand that. Every time there is a shooting they run in front of the cameras and spout off about needing more gun control.
olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
If guns were banned, wouldn't we see a significant rise in sword violence? I'm in favor of gun control, fwiw, but it doesn't address the fundamental cultural issue of violence as a solution, wherever you're from. Until two or three generations pass through this s**thole of a planet refusing to kill each other because we cut each other off in traffic, or we had sex with each other's partners, or we drew a picture of each other's prophets, or we want control of each other's natural resources, this nightmare is our reality.
fishonjazz
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Maybe, but guns are the ultimate killing tool.
A two year old could kill you will a gun. A two year old could not kill you with a sword.
I could fire a gun at someone 10 feet from me and miss them and instead hit someone two hundred years away by accident. That scenario could not happen with a sword, knife, bat, etc
olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
You don't have kids, do you...?
Yeah, good point. I stick to this being a cultural thing more than a gun control issue, though. And remember, I did say I'm in favor of gun control-- I think it does contribute to the solution, at least.
You're not just bad at satire, you don't do well with sarcasm either.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Ah, GD's most cantankerous BYU fan is back.... and taking cheap shots.
UGLI baby
Well-Known Member
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
This is what my book was about...but here in the U.S.
Here's a piece written 8-9 years ago by Christopher Hitchens on the topic of free speech and mocking religion:
The case for mocking religion
The case for mocking religion
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
RIP Hitchens
For those who enjoyed him, here's one of his most brilliant oratory performances and my personal favourite - his defense of free speech(as it happens very much on point about the topic of the thread):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyoOfRog1EM
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Maybe satirists shouldn't depict sacred religious figures kissing men on the lips?
I don't condone killing. But depicting Mohammad kissing the head of that magazine was asinine. You're asking for trouble if you ask me.
Free speech is great. But shouldn't there be some boundaries? Some things should be left alone. No joking about terrorism at airports, no screaming fire in theaters, and no depicting sacred figures in completely sacreligious and disrespectful ways.
I don't condone killing. But depicting Mohammad kissing the head of that magazine was asinine. You're asking for trouble if you ask me.
Free speech is great. But shouldn't there be some boundaries? Some things should be left alone. No joking about terrorism at airports, no screaming fire in theaters, and no depicting sacred figures in completely sacreligious and disrespectful ways.
trigg3r
Well-Known Member
So free speech is only great as long as it doesn't offend anybody? You realize that's not really free speech. How about people grow some thicker skin rather than going out and killing somebody they don't agree with on the issue? What they did might be stupid, but they should nevertheless have the right to do it and not die for doing it.
No, that's not a wise position. The position should be - satirists, novelist, pundits, every single citizen of a free country should be able to portray anyone and say anything without threat to their life. No BUTs. No "but it's sacrilegious", no "but this offends me". Free speech is always free, not only when you agree with it. I don't agree with and find a ton of positions appalling and disrespectful and offensive, but I'd always defend the right of the people who hold them to be able to say them without threat of bodily harm or persecution from the state. No BUTs.
Also, of course there are exceptions. For example there are laws against slander and libel. Those are for knowingly spreading objectively false information about somebody that results in harm to that person. The "fire" and "terrorism" ones have similar connotation - knowingly spreading false information that might result in harm to people(there have been instances with numerous victims caused by the panic because of somebody knowingly shouted "fire" when they knew there was no fire).
But when it actually comes to artistic work and expression and actual positions of conscience I have absolutely no idea why any speech should be banned, or any violent action excused, or any attempts to suggest that those people might have been better off not speaking because of threat of violence be tolerated. Everybody should have the right to put their thoughts forth and let them flourish or die in the battlefield of ideas, not in actual battlefields with people being killed for what they've thought or said. If your ideas are not strong enough to survive the scrutiny/ridicule/jokes of others maybe the problem is not with the ones scrutinizing and ridiculing them.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
With responses like this it makes me wonder why we even post at all? Did you even read what I said?
I didn't say anything close to "as long as it doesn't offend anybody."
I think you should read and reread my post.
We put limits on free speech all the time. Free speech doesn't mean that you can say whatever the hell you want, anywhere, and whenever and not face consequences.
Try it, go to the nearest airport and start cracking jokes about 9/11. Go into the nearest black community and start shouting the n word.