The Thriller
Well-Known Member
If the Jazz end up with Kanter and Knight without having to trade away Favors, then I will personally clean KOC's toilet with Fess's toothbrush and my lips.
Jazz after both Knight and Kanter
- Thread starter shadler
- Start date
He once told me to "Get raped by a pack of aids infested dogs".
You deserved far worse, but a mod shared with me that that kind of response, no matter how much deserved, was not allowed. I have since repented and find you very funny, witty, and strangely exotic.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Um, Bleacher Report? Or am I missing something?
Yes, I know that. I had to vote on it. But it was all a part of your back and forth bickering, and I'm struggling to see why it began in the first place. I've seen him pimp Kanter and Knight, but they are players in the Jazz's pick range so I don't see why that's a big deal. It's a far cry from Coach pimping Keith McLeod and trying to point out how he was better than Deron.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
I offered trades involving Millsap for the 5th pick and I was criticized. Now Millsap and the 12th pick for the 5th is not bad?
Millsap & 12th pick >>>>>> Knight and Kleiza
I don't like the trade. If Derozon was in place of Kleiza than I would say yes. But Kleiza shot 29 percent from 3. And 33 for his career. Not good. I don't want him. And the Raptors won't give up Derozon. We need something more than just Knight for Millsap and the 12th pick.
Millsap & 12th pick >>>>>> Knight and Kleiza
I don't like the trade. If Derozon was in place of Kleiza than I would say yes. But Kleiza shot 29 percent from 3. And 33 for his career. Not good. I don't want him. And the Raptors won't give up Derozon. We need something more than just Knight for Millsap and the 12th pick.
In fairness Nate, I have addressed my concerns with BOTH Knight and Kanter. I like them both, a lot, but what's the sin in that (as most GM's do as well)? To the contrary, I have NEVER pimped either one. I've, just like everyone else, given my pro's and con's on each .. just as I have with Irving, Williams, Jonas, Jan, Tristan, Leonard, Jimmer, Kemba, Butler, Biyombo, Donatas, Burks, Singleton, etc, ect. (Though I grow tired of defending myself, unnecessarily, on this issue, I will do so.)
I would do that trade in a heartbeat. Paul Millsap and the #12 for Linas Kleiza and the #5 pick seems like a pretty even trade to me. The Jazz would then draft whomever is left between Williams and Kanter (hopefully Williams) @ #3 and Brandon Knight @ #5. We then go with this depth chart:
PG: Devin Harris, Brandon Knight, Earl Watson
SG: Gordon Hayward, C.J. Miles, Brandon Knight
SF: Derrick Williams/Linas Kleiza (if we select Kanter, Kleiza would be the starter and we probably re-sign AK), Jeremy Evans
PF: Derrick Favors, Enes Kanter (unless we select Williams), Jeremy Evans
C: Al Jefferson, Enes Kanter/Mehmet Okur, Derrick Favors
PG: Devin Harris, Brandon Knight, Earl Watson
SG: Gordon Hayward, C.J. Miles, Brandon Knight
SF: Derrick Williams/Linas Kleiza (if we select Kanter, Kleiza would be the starter and we probably re-sign AK), Jeremy Evans
PF: Derrick Favors, Enes Kanter (unless we select Williams), Jeremy Evans
C: Al Jefferson, Enes Kanter/Mehmet Okur, Derrick Favors
I'd play Evans over Kleiza
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
Me either. He is open about his homerism. His posts bring a different perspective from the majority of this board.
I would really like this if it is Millsap and 12 for 5 and Kleiza.
Doc Cherno
Well-Known Member
Okay, so I'm too sentimental to ever make a good GM or owner, but more than that I'm poor and not particularly sophisticated about what would make the best team. But I would hate to trade Sap just to move up a few spots in this draft. I could see Harris and potentially next year's second, but that's about as far as I'd go for what's been reported/proposed. I'd rather stay with what we can snag at 3 Williams/Kanter/Knight and see what falls to us at 12. If we end up with any of the consensus top 3 picks (mentioned above) I'd say we did pretty well both in terms of BPA and team needs at the same time. A 12 pick is always a crap shoot, but I look at it as a bonus throw this year since pretty much everyone is a crap shoot in this draft.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
The bottom line with the 2011 draft is I want the Jazz to end up being a better team down the road because of it - and I don't think adding Kanter and Knight while subtracting Millsap helps the Jazz that much.
I think if you really want to include Millsap in a trade for a higher pick, 2012 should be the year to do it.
I think if you really want to include Millsap in a trade for a higher pick, 2012 should be the year to do it.
This would be awesome... talk about a turnaround... the fact of the matter is, Millsap (and Harris for that matter) is gonna be going downhill by the time talent has accumulated enough to be in the playoffs... getting younger, bigger, and faster is the best thing we can do right now.
I'd be for AJ, Sap, or Harris to get this trade done... but I'd want a bit more of a return if we give up a 20/10 guy like AJ . Maybe if we added on the Golden State pick to sweeten the pot...
I assume Sap would be the piece though
but this lineup gives me a wet dream
PG: Knight, Harris, Watson
SG: CJ, (a position to be improved at a later date)
SF: Hayward, Evans
PF: Favors, Kleiza
C: AJ, Kanter, Memo
but if this trade happens, Jefferson and Harris are on borrowed time and will probably be used to acquire a SG
I'd be for AJ, Sap, or Harris to get this trade done... but I'd want a bit more of a return if we give up a 20/10 guy like AJ . Maybe if we added on the Golden State pick to sweeten the pot...
I assume Sap would be the piece though
but this lineup gives me a wet dream
PG: Knight, Harris, Watson
SG: CJ, (a position to be improved at a later date)
SF: Hayward, Evans
PF: Favors, Kleiza
C: AJ, Kanter, Memo
but if this trade happens, Jefferson and Harris are on borrowed time and will probably be used to acquire a SG
vslice02
Well-Known Member
The concept of having your top 5-7 guys be young players under 25 may look good on paper but has never worked.
Establish your core for the future (Favors, Hayward, #3 pick, potentially '12 GS Pick) and if you have a couple guys in their early 30's after them that's fine.
While I agree with you in part, veteran leadership and work ethic is needing among young guys. Millsap epitomizes this more than anyone on our roster, in addition to the fact that he doesn't take anyone's spot and would fit within a dynamic where you have something like Favors and Kanter up front. Jefferson, however, wouldn't fit in assuming Favors and Kanter are solid starters. He also wouldn't fill as strong leadership role as Millsap, in my opinion.
I'd be ok with picking up Knight if they really feel good about him. The fact of the matter is that as a freshman he put up some pretty unbelievable numbers. However, if you think he's a just a solid player ala Devin Harris caliber, then I think you may as well just pick up a guy like Jimmer or Jackson and have more ball handling run through someone like Hayward and let Kanter and Favors play inside while kicking out to guys on the perimeter to bomb threes (like the Robinson/Duncan Spurs -- not equating Favors or Kanter to either of them but you get the idea). But if you think his ceiling is higher than someone like Harris then you look to make this move.
But then again, what's this source, again?
Well i think it's safer to hedge your bets with a slew of young players, than keeping the "already shown what they can do" NBA guys around... the latter keeps you out of the playoffs regardless, the former gives you hope.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Just like you can't build a championship team in the NBA around 5 starters who are all scorers, you can't build a championship team in the NBA with 5 starters who are all young guys. In rebuilding you not only need to know when to cut your losses and start from scratch, but you also have to have achieve some balance throughout the process. Scoring balance, defensive balance, veteran balance and leadership balance.
I'd definitely do it and whoever it is either Millsap or Harris is fine by me - throw Bell in there as well if it's Harris.
Millsap
I really like him, but our future Trio has to be Jefferson, Favors and Kanter + 1 tall pesky back up Center. I hear everyone's argument about his character and his work ethic and how this would rub off the young players. But talent & size wins in this league and I don't think we can afford him any longer. Besides, the new guys we have (i.e., Hayward and Evans) already show a lot of character and work ethic which makes Millsap's intangibles a bit redundant IMO. You know Knight & Kanter are gonna hit the gym hard as well from pre-draft reports.
Harris
There's little doubt we should swap him for a younger version any chance we get. He is on the downward path in this career (losing his speed and leap) and he doesn't provide that veteran leadership that we need. For that why not just get Earl back for 2 more years to tutor Knight? I don't think he has a long future here IMO.
Are we going to be too young?
Yes and no. We can sign Earl (PG), we have Bell (SG - OK he's not the best, but he does provide the verteran cool head that we sometimes need), Miles (SF), Jefferson (PF/C).
Plus we'll have either Harris or Millsap as well (say we only trade 1).
So no, I think there's enough veteran leadership there.