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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

I would do two unprotected if the other three picks can be blind super swaps - meaning you can pick up a pick in the future and force a trade. Imagine getting a top 3 pick for Minnesota pick. Has is that not a steal?
 
stitches said:
this won't work for NYK. Part of the reason they are trying so hard to limit the number of unprotected is so they will have some number of picks available for future trade. 24/26/28 leaves them with just 1 pick they can use next year or the year after. IMO they would rather do 23/25/27 with pick swap either in 24 or in 26. Of course the Jazz would push for 26 IMO. This would allow them to have 2 of their own picks to trade in 24 for another star + possibly another pick if they keep the MKE pick.
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Yeah... I get that. I just think at some point we say "mfers... we are trading the star!" They can't do the deal with Barrett or Grimes cuz they need those guys... they want fournier in and not Rose cuz they need that cap...

I did think we could do 23, 26, 28 with a swap in 27 maybe? At the 2024 draft they could move 24/30 plus a protected pick they own. We end up with a lot of picks in 2023 which is good, but there could be a diminishing return. I suppose since we don't really have any great prospects atm that adding a bunch would be okay.

I am just kind of sick of the NY narrative where they are like "you need to leave us XYZ to trade for a second star and we also need to keep these 2 valuable young guys cuz they fit and we need to retain talent... also be mindful of our cap situation..."

At some point they need to realize it isn't our job to get that second star for them. They also need to realize without star 1 they don't get star 2.
 
whatthe said:
I would do two unprotected if the other three picks can be blind super swaps - meaning you can pick up a pick in the future and force a trade. Imagine getting a top 3 pick for Minnesota pick. Has is that not a steal?
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the three other picks are picks they own from other teams that are protected.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah... I get that. I just think at some point we say "mfers... we are trading the star!" They can't do the deal with Barrett or Grimes cuz they need those guys... they want fournier in and not Rose cuz they need that cap...

I did think we could do 23, 26, 28 with a swap in 27 maybe? At the 2024 draft they could move 24/30 plus a protected pick they own. We end up with a lot of picks in 2023 which is good, but there could be a diminishing return. I suppose since we don't really have any great prospects atm that adding a bunch would be okay.

I am just kind of sick of the NY narrative where they are like "you need to leave us XYZ to trade for a second star and we also need to keep these 2 valuable young guys cuz they fit and we need to retain talent... also be mindful of our cap situation..."

At some point they need to realize it isn't our job to get that second star for them. They also need to realize without star 1 they don't get star 2.
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And if they want to keep one more protected pick to open up a bigger trade later... that's fine... they can sub in Grimes or Barrett then... so Grimes, Toppin, Fournier 23/25 plus three protected picks... or give us Barrett instead of Grimes. You guys decide if draft capital or those players will help you land that second star you need.

To me this heats up over the next 2 weeks and consummates when NY relents and we get something closer to what we want. In the deal we will also flip Fournier, Bev, Bogey to LA for one of their picks and Westbrook. I think its fair... Bogey get the first and Bev gets you off of Fournier's money.
 
stitches said:
this won't work for NYK. Part of the reason they are trying so hard to limit the number of unprotected is so they will have some number of picks available for future trade. 24/26/28 leaves them with just 1 pick they can use next year or the year after. IMO they would rather do 23/25/27 with pick swap either in 24 or in 26. Of course the Jazz would push for 26 IMO. This would allow them to have 2 of their own picks to trade in 24 for another star + possibly another pick if they keep the MKE pick.

If I had to guess the final deal is something like...

23/25 NYK unprotected, NYK 27 top 5 protected
2 of the other picks(very likely they would rather keep the MKE pick)
Toppin, Quickley, filler.
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I would think 27 would have to be unprotected. Especially if they are trying to trade 24, 29, 31 later. Maybe Ainge would leave the top 5 protections later to extract more to make it unprotected when they are trying to make their next big move.
 
Toppin + 5 1sts being a lowball is pretty awesome. I know only two picks are unprotected in that offer but we likely aren’t THAT far apart. Feels good to know what an actual offer was instead of speculation.
 
stitches said:
this won't work for NYK. Part of the reason they are trying so hard to limit the number of unprotected is so they will have some number of picks available for future trade. 24/26/28 leaves them with just 1 pick they can use next year or the year after. IMO they would rather do 23/25/27 with pick swap either in 24 or in 26. Of course the Jazz would push for 26 IMO. This would allow them to have 2 of their own picks to trade in 24 for another star + possibly another pick if they keep the MKE pick.

If I had to guess the final deal is something like...

23/25 NYK unprotected, NYK 27 top 5 protected
2 of the other picks(very likely they would rather keep the MKE pick)
Toppin, Quickley, filler.
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Jazz won’t take less than 3 unprotected picks at the baseline and you can bet your closest loved one’s life on that.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Toppin + 5 1sts being a lowball is pretty awesome. I know only two picks are unprotected in that offer but we likely aren’t THAT far apart. Feels good to know what an actual offer was instead of speculation.
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But it isn't near good enough for me, so that doesn't feel so good. They can't keep RJ, protections, Grimes, and still only give us 5 picks. Not nearly good enough. We bench Donovan for a year, lose, and get a high draft pick to pair with him and 2 years of eligibility. Besides, it would help his ankles to do what Steph did so he can play in his 30s.
 
Once the Knicks offer more Ainge should ask for some 2nd round picks to seal it up. I bet the stupid Knicks would hand us numerous 2nd round picks stop everything else just to get the deal done because they're desperate and stupid - tell them we want the picks in place of Grimes since the Knicks think he's great.
 
The more this drags on, I find the entire topic as interesting as college athletic conference affiliation. I know the issue is important and potentially big dollars coming or leaving various schools in the form of TV revenue but I find articles about it incredibly boring about like I find articles about Federal budget deficits. Either get the deal done or say we are going with DM in the future.
 
Jingled said:
If that's their latest offer then the two sides are still pretty far apart. This may end up dragging on into the season.
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IDK… I think it’s kinda close-ish. Like add 1 more unprotected pick and it closes… or they can add Grimes. Swap one protected for an unprotected and add Quickley (and maybe we push for Rose instead of Fournier to clear the cap).

I don’t think Ainge honestly thinks his initial ask will be met. He was going for the insane package. If you don’t ask you’ll never know. I think he gets a little more earnest here as we get closer to September 6th when we can execute some other good deals.

3 unprotected picks
2 other picks
1 swap

Either Toppin/Quickley or Grimes. If they want to put RJ in the deal I’ll do 2 unprotected picks and 2 protected picks.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Toppin + 5 1sts being a lowball is pretty awesome. I know only two picks are unprotected in that offer but we likely aren’t THAT far apart. Feels good to know what an actual offer was instead of speculation.
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It's pretty awful especially since it includes us taking back Fournier's long term money.

No blue chip prospects and the Knicks have plenty of assets leftover to greatly improve the team. The unprotected picks are probably in 23 and 25, which with all the assets they have left, they will easily be able to make moves to improve their team.

You need 1 more unprotected or RJ Barrett, Grimes, and Rose instead of Fournier.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
IDK… I think it’s kinda close-ish. Like add 1 more unprotected pick and it closes… or they can add Grimes. Swap one protected for an unprotected and add Quickley (and maybe we push for Rose instead of Fournier to clear the cap).

I don’t think Ainge honestly thinks his initial ask will be met. He was going for the insane package. If you don’t ask you’ll never know. I think he gets a little more earnest here as we get closer to September 6th when we can execute some other good deals.

3 unprotected picks
2 other picks
1 swap

Either Toppin/Quickley or Grimes. If they want to put RJ in the deal I’ll do 2 unprotected picks and 2 protected picks.
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Yeah, people are getting pretty wild. Another unprotected 1st plus a pick swap or two likely gets it done.

Are we really going to turn down 3 unprotected Knicks 1sts + 3 protected 1sts + Toppin and Quickley? No.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Jazz won’t take less than 3 unprotected picks at the baseline and you can bet your closest loved one’s life on that.
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It's not about the 3 unprotected. It's that you are pushing them forward and it makes it harder for them to trade future picks for another star. If they trade 3 unprotected to us IMO it's about 99.9% certain those would be 23,25 and 27 and not 24,26 and 28...
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
It's pretty awful especially since it includes us taking back Fournier's long term money.

No blue chip prospects and the Knicks have plenty of assets leftover to greatly improve the team. The unprotected picks are probably in 23 and 25, which with all the assets they have left, they will easily be able to make moves to improve their team.

You need 1 more unprotected or RJ Barrett, Grimes, and Rose instead of Fournier.
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Which is why I said they’re not that far apart when their lowball offer is only 1 unprotected pick away from being a offer we can agree on.
 
I'm guessing the Knicks biggest concern is how they can get off Randle's contract if they pay to high of a price for Mitchell.

Because if they can get off Randle for an expiring contract, they can free up money. If they have cap-space and Mitchell, they don't need to trade for a star, they can likely sign one.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Which is why I said they’re not that far apart when their lowball offer is only 1 unprotected pick away from being a offer we can agree on.
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I think the Knicks/Rose are pretty headstrong about not bowing to Ainge's demands. I think they are going to take a risk on this one and wait it out.

I think that lowball offer might be the offer. Maybe they add in Grimes, but I doubt they add in more unprotected picks.
 
If I was a Knicks fan I would want the team's 1st priority to be get off of Randle's contract tbh, not trade for Mitchell.

Then I'd want a year of the young guys. IF they lose games w/e. Get a high draft pick in a loaded class.

Then revisit the Mitchell talks prior to the 23 draft.

To me the urgency to trade for Mitchell for the Knicks is solely a media created one. They can afford to wait a year. And the Jazz can too probably.

That's why I dont think a deal gets done.
 
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