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Jazz Offseason Plan

Saint Cy of JFC said:
I said what I said about it. I'm not putting that much analytical energy into it as I would a Jazz trade. I'll take NOLA's side because it made them a better team today and set them up for better future success. And yes, that all depends on the finishing touch moves. They could easily botch them.
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TLDR… I will play checkers because I’m not good enough to play chess.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Im just mehing at him being a generational talent. I think you're just throwing that term around. He isnt near Zion's level. Ja is more of a guy on Donovan's talent level. I see no real potential for him being a top 5 NBA player year in/year out like I do Zion.

At the end of the day, talent is the key and Zion has the most talent and now they can pair that talent with good veteran help. I think they have much better odds of achieving playoff success over the next 4 years than Memphis does.
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Until he proves otherwise, Zion is all-hype 1st Team. I don’t give a **** about his highlights or his empty-*** numbers.

Maybe he puts it together, but we’re two years in and he has done jack ****ing squat.
 
If you swapped Mitchell/Zion Utah would be a far better team and NOLA would be far worse, but since one player gets to play with elite role players and a defensive savant, one player gets called empty and the other isn't empty (to be clear this isnt a dig on Mitchell at all and I dont view him as empty, just Zion is a freaking insane player who is basically only 2nd to Luka in terms of young players).
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I get Zion has defensive gaps, but the numbers he puts up on offense are anything but empty.
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Then where is the success? Oh, cuz he can’t stay healthy? It counts. Because the front office is doing a bad job? Isn’t a generational talent supposed to elevate their team generationally? Is this the same front office we’re supposed to trust to use this newfound cap flexibility wisely?
 
Ineptimusprime said:
The latest:

“The Mavericks are also considered to be a possible landing spot for Jazz guard Mike Conley, although there's a strong belief around the league that Utah will be successful in its attempts to shed salary and offer Conley a substantial deal.

The Jazz continue to hold discussions on Joe Ingles and Bojan Bogdanovic, while Royce O'Neale, due to his lower cap figure and strong two-way success this season, is not expected to be included in any outgoing Utah package. The Jazz remain engaged in talks on trading the No. 30 pick to send Derrick Favors' salary elsewhere, sources said. “

Everything but Bogey gives me concern here.
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I'm happy to hear Royce won't be included.......but if they aren't getting anything of need out of the pick and Favors, or Ingles, or Bogey and just dumping them to save money I hate it. Where are these quotes from? The Jazz should do what's needed this season if they are re-signing Mike and just pay the bill. Make these sorts of moves next offseason to avoid the repeater tax, but prove you're willing to pay up when it's needed.
 
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Saint Cy of JFC said:
OK, my only question for you is who do you expect to win more games over the next 4 years and who do you expect to have more playoff success over the next 4 years?
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That has more to do with health, next moves, and past moves than the current move… it’s another straw man. Even though it’s a dumb straw man I will take Memphis over the next 4 years. Even though Griffin is trying to extend his stay and making short term moves.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Then where is the success? Oh, cuz he can’t stay healthy? It counts. Because the front office is doing a bad job? Isn’t a generational talent supposed to elevate their team generationally? Is this the same front office we’re supposed to trust to use this newfound cap flexibility wisely?
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SO to be clear you think the 20 year old who put up 27-7-4 on insane efficiency (5.4 OBPM) in his first full NBA season isn't a generational talent because his team underachieved in a wonky season while being in a loaded conference?

Yes, the FO made some bad moves. Just because a GM makes bad moves doesnt mean they arent capable of making good moves. The Jazz GM who made a masterful trade up to grab Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert is the same GM who traded down to get Udoka. I think it's more clear what Zion needs around him. If they can go out and get Lowry and shore up with more veteran role player help, they are a likely playoff team and maybe even top 5. Zion is that good.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
That has more to do with health, next moves, and past moves than the current move… it’s another straw man. Even though it’s a dumb straw man I will take Memphis over the next 4 years. Even though Griffin is trying to extend his stay and making short term moves.
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Just curious. I think we exhausted the discussion on who won the trade.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
There's no new news. You want us to rehash the same dumb **** that has been said for the last week?
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No, I just open this thread to read about Jazz offseason stuff. Fine — you can talk about whatever you want. It’s just my pet ****ing peeve when threads veer wildly off-topic.
oneye said:
I'm happy to hear Royce won't be included.......but if they aren't getting anything of need out of the pick and Favors, or Ingles, or Bogey and just dumping them to save money I hate it. Where are these quotes from? The Jazz should do what's needed this season if they are re-signing Mike and just pay the bill. Make these sorts of moves next offseason to avoid the repeater tax, but prove you're willing to pay up when it's needed.
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I tried to post the link, but it isn’t working. It’s Jake Fischer’s bleacher report piece this morning. Here’s the link to the Tweet.

 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
IDK about dying on a hill, I'd just rather be the team that has the better players, a generational talent, and has more cap-room.

Plus, the Pelicans could actually out-draft the Grizzlies at 17 vs 10. So the whole reason you think this is a huge win for Memphis might not even play out the way you think. They still have to actually nail the pick. Im going to laugh when the Grizzlies grab someone like Kuminga and he turns out to be a huge bust.
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Good post.

It's too early to say if anybody won or lost on this trade. Too much left to decide. However, my opinion is that Memphis didn't do a good job. I would like it better if...

- They completely left Adams and JV out of the deal
Or
- if the LA pick was the one NOLA owns in 2024 instead of the one next year which will probably be weak.

Time will tell, but I don't like it for Memphis.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I do think it's weird that Lopo is on the NOLA side of the trade though since he fetishizes draft potential and pushing the day of reckoning back as far as possible.
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Handlogten's Heros said:
It’s why I said if we did it he’d be spitting fire. We did a much more sound version of this deal and he still talks with his therapist weekly about how dumb the Conley deal was. NO can only dream of this deal working out so well.
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My stance is pretty consistent.

#1 - I don't like trading guys who fit the culture and make up of the team. I didn't want to trade Crowder. JV was an excellent fit in Memphis for what he does and his contract. Boston lost an edge when they replaced Rozier with Kemba. Etc.

#2 - I don't like overpaying vets unless they are filling clear voids. Adams and Bledsoe don't fill any voids on the Memphis roster. Adams actually hindered Zion's ability to dominate so why does Memphis want to pay him more than the better fit JV and longer?

#3 - The draft is a crapshoot. I almost always would rather go with a proven commodity than a draft pick. Almost every champion now trades picks to fill out already good rosters. The Bucks used picks to get Jrue. The Lakers used picks for AD. GS used picks to build their monster. Cleveland used picks to build their team. Etc. Sure you can draft gold, but building a team completely from the draft, which Memphis seems to be trying to do, won't happen. Too much riding on #10.


I hated the Conley trade because we gave us good fit players AND picks AND all our cap space for a guy who I didn't think brought out the best in Donovan Mitchell. Neither of these trades is similar to our Conley deal.
 
LoPo said:
My stance is pretty consistent.

#1 - I don't like trading guys who fit the culture and make up of the team. I didn't want to trade Crowder. JV was an excellent fit in Memphis for what he does and his contract. Boston lost an edge when they replaced Rozier with Kemba. Etc.

#2 - I don't like overpaying vets unless they are filling clear voids. Adams and Bledsoe don't fill any voids on the Memphis roster. Adams actually hindered Zion's ability to dominate so why does Memphis want to pay him more than the better fit JV and longer?

#3 - The draft is a crapshoot. I almost always would rather go with a proven commodity than a draft pick. Almost every champion now trades picks to fill out already good rosters. The Bucks used picks to get Jrue. The Lakers used picks for AD. GS used picks to build their monster. Cleveland used picks to build their team. Etc. Sure you can draft gold, but building a team completely from the draft, which Memphis seems to be trying to do, won't happen. Too much riding on #10.


I hated the Conley trade because we gave us good fit players AND picks AND all our cap space for a guy who I didn't think brought out the best in Donovan Mitchell. Neither of these trades is similar to our Conley deal.
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I guess you have to be able to look more than one move into the future. Obvi.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
No, I just open this thread to read about Jazz offseason stuff. Fine — you can talk about whatever you want. It’s just my pet ****ing peeve when threads veer wildly off-topic.

I tried to post the link, but it isn’t working. It’s Jake Fischer’s bleacher report piece this morning. Here’s the link to the Tweet.

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I wonder what the market is for SGA. I’m guessing he isn’t really available.... and, if he is, we don’t have the assets to get him anyway. Obviously an interesting pairing with DM, doe.
 
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