Jazz Offseason Plan

[Handlogten's Heros]

It sounds as though Mike coming back is a done deal... listened to the Windhorst pod (I have a hard time with him but he has good guests). He and Pelton said something about Conley and were like "it looks pretty good for his return to utah... then Brian said I'm going to stop short of saying... " and then he trailed off. He is really weird about saying stuff because he doesn't want to get aggregated.

So I think it is safe to plan around Mike returning... heard enough stuff there to think Mike has poked around his market and Jazz have communicated their willingness and they likely already have a rough structure agreed upon... there is a ton of assumption in there I know but let's be honest... it ain't like the first calls teams make are the minute after FA opens.

 

[oneye]

Well you have Mike currently posting DoTERRA ads on his Instagram page, so what more of a sign that he's a lock to return could we need lol

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

My stance is pretty consistent.

#1 - I don't like trading guys who fit the culture and make up of the team. I didn't want to trade Crowder. JV was an excellent fit in Memphis for what he does and his contract. Boston lost an edge when they replaced Rozier with Kemba. Etc.

#2 - I don't like overpaying vets unless they are filling clear voids. Adams and Bledsoe don't fill any voids on the Memphis roster. Adams actually hindered Zion's ability to dominate so why does Memphis want to pay him more than the better fit JV and longer?

#3 - The draft is a crapshoot. I almost always would rather go with a proven commodity than a draft pick. Almost every champion now trades picks to fill out already good rosters. The Bucks used picks to get Jrue. The Lakers used picks for AD. GS used picks to build their monster. Cleveland used picks to build their team. Etc. Sure you can draft gold, but building a team completely from the draft, which Memphis seems to be trying to do, won't happen. Too much riding on #10.


I hated the Conley trade because we gave us good fit players AND picks AND all our cap space for a guy who I didn't think brought out the best in Donovan Mitchell. Neither of these trades is similar to our Conley deal.

I mean lets just talk about #3... how did GS become a monster? By using picks? Nah homey... they used picks to DRAFT Steph, Klay, Draymond, Barnes... they only traded picks later. Lakers used guys they drafted and picks to get AD... that team was built in FA when they landed Lebron... the biggiest move the Bucks made was DRAFTING Giannis... I mean they could have traded that pick to shortcut the rebuild around Jabari Parker but they placed it on a lotto ticket.

Memphis may miss but their process is sound... they might only hit on a Mikal Bridges type level player with the pick this year but they can then pivot and trade that guy with the other draft capital and expiring contracts they have for a big asset if they want. Small market teams like Memphis don't build through FA... they build through trades and the draft... their move was consistent with their strategy.

Can't wait for NO to use their space on helping Lowry get paid by some other market and settling for Norm Powell or Spencer Dinwiddie when they could have just kept Ball and Hart and then moved Bledsoe and the draft capital they gave up to get another guy or guys of that same talent pool. I'm positive Griffin will nail this and it will help them build for 2-5 years down the road when Zion and Ingram are ready.

 

[LoPo]

I mean lets just talk about #3... how did GS become a monster? By using picks? Nah homey... they used picks to DRAFT Steph, Klay, Draymond, Barnes... they only traded picks later. Lakers used guys they drafted and picks to get AD... that team was built in FA when they landed Lebron... the biggiest move the Bucks made was DRAFTING Giannis... I mean they could have traded that pick to shortcut the rebuild around Jabari Parker but they placed it on a lotto ticket.

Memphis may miss but their process is sound... they might only hit on a Mikal Bridges type level player with the pick this year but they can then pivot and trade that guy with the other draft capital and expiring contracts they have for a big asset if they want. Small market teams like Memphis don't build through FA... they build through trades and the draft... their move was consistent with their strategy.

Can't wait for NO to use their space on helping Lowry get paid by some other market and settling for Norm Powell or Spencer Dinwiddie when they could have just kept Ball and Hart and then moved Bledsoe and the draft capital they gave up to get another guy or guys of that same talent pool. I'm positive Griffin will nail this and it will help them build for 2-5 years down the road when Zion and Ingram are ready.

Outside of a massive free agent pickup, you gotta get lucky with the draft then trade picks to fill the gaps.

It's how it's done. Jrue, Iggy, AD, Love, etc etc etc. It's what we tried by adding Conley.

Memphis has to do really well with #10 or they lost the trade badly. Just do the math man.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[oneye]

Yeah at this point my prediction is this.

-Jazz trade Derrick and the 30th pick to get rid of his salary
-Jazz trade Joe or Bogey for a player and a pick(maybe in this draft)
Both of the above moves to trim luxury tax
-Jazz re-sign Mike, use their MLE, and sign a vet minimum player
-Jazz re-sign Hughes and Forrest

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Outside of a massive free agent pickup, you gotta get lucky with the draft then trade picks to fill the gaps.

It's how it's done. Jrue, Iggy, AD, Love, etc etc etc. It's what we tried by adding Conley.

Memphis has to do really well with #10 or they lost the trade badly. Just do the math man.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

I've done the math... they have a MUCH better chance at #10 than #17. They acquired additional draft capital to make the trade to fill the gaps. They have a bunch of NBA players on their roster so filling depth with cap space isn't an issue. The last great FA memphis signed was who? Parsons? Kyle Anderson was solid.. they can still shop for that level of guy with MLE if they want. They can also match any big contract in trade and add additional young players and draft capital. Even is #10 is mediocre they will end up just fine. They can still have enormous cap space next year if they want to go that route. Ask Dallas how great their cap space strategy has worked out over the years.

NO traded draft capital, Ball, and Hart for a mystery bag of FA and an upgrade of Adams to JV... Between Ingram, Zion, and JV they gonna allow 120 pts per game... so I'm not convinced JV hitting one three a game more will make a monumental difference.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also kind of surprised Jordan Clarkson hasnt had his name in these rumors at all.

 

[LoPo]

I've done the math... they have a MUCH better chance at #10 than #17. They acquired additional draft capital to make the trade to fill the gaps. They have a bunch of NBA players on their roster so filling depth with cap space isn't an issue. The last great FA memphis signed was who? Parsons? Kyle Anderson was solid.. they can still shop for that level of guy with MLE if they want. They can also match any big contract in trade and add additional young players and draft capital. Even is #10 is mediocre they will end up just fine. They can still have enormous cap space next year if they want to go that route. Ask Dallas how great their cap space strategy has worked out over the years.

NO traded draft capital, Ball, and Hart for a mystery bag of FA and an upgrade of Adams to JV... Between Ingram, Zion, and JV they gonna allow 120 pts per game... so I'm not convinced JV hitting one three a game more will make a monumental difference.

It all depends on what happens next. Who does Memphis draft? What does NOLA do with the cap room along with their future picks?

If it was me, I would have used future picks and the cap room to target a big acquisition if I was Memphis. I wouldn't have left it to the draft. Like you said, they are stocked with solid talent throughout the roster. They had solid expiring players like JV and Anderson. They have an extra 1st in 2022 and another extra 1st in 2024.

New Orleans traded 2 contracts nobody wanted and the worst 1st in their arsenal to slide back 7 spots.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Outside of a massive free agent pickup, you gotta get lucky with the draft then trade picks to fill the gaps.

It's how it's done. Jrue, Iggy, AD, Love, etc etc etc. It's what we tried by adding Conley.

Memphis has to do really well with #10 or they lost the trade badly. Just do the math man.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

I also don’t love the fit with JV and Zion. A center next to Zion ideally can shoot threes and protect the rim… he has limitations similar to Giannis until he can shoot… he doesn’t have the elite defense of Giannis which makes it even tougher. He’s a great talent but unique.

They have drafted Jaxon Hayes, traded for Adams, and now JV… they gonna turn JV to Lopez on offense? Takes away from his roll game and offensive rebounding… maybe they think they can just bludgeon people on the offensive glass but I just don’t think they have a great plan. They haven’t earned a lot of confidence thus far.

Just the SVG hire alone is so dumb. The guy doesn’t hide who he is… literally was on Le Batard talking about how he worries about on court almost exclusively and wasn’t all concerned with young guys feelings and such. Griff has been rough… I don’t trust him to make the next moves with the chess board he’s set up.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also kind of surprised Jordan Clarkson hasnt had his name in these rumors at all.

This. He seems like the logical guy of Bogey, Joe, etc. to be moved if Mike is back. I hear all these teams raving about Bouknight and how he could be a JC type scorer… and I think… what if we traded you the actual JC on a solid contract right now?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah at this point my prediction is this.

-Jazz trade Derrick and the 30th pick to get rid of his salary
-Jazz trade Joe or Bogey for a player and a pick(maybe in this draft)
Both of the above moves to trim luxury tax
-Jazz re-sign Mike, use their MLE, and sign a vet minimum player
-Jazz re-sign Hughes and Forrest

I think Favs or bogey are traded… not both.

Bogey would be for a pick in the middle of the draft and not much returning salary… Favs would be the salary dump with the pick (throwing up in my mouf).

 

[oneye]

Also kind of surprised Jordan Clarkson hasnt had his name in these rumors at all.

Donovan is the reason why JC will be in no rumors and Royce isn't actually going to be a part of any of these trades and isn't available. This is the beginning of LeDonovan the GM. Hughes and Forrest are also a Donovan reason as well, as will much of what happens to the FO. Donovan is going to get, essentially what Donovan wants, and the moves will be tip-toey around not upsetting him too much. We see how emotional he gets when he's upset. Dennis specifically said when they re-signed JC, Donovan was a part of that decision even with Dennis still at the helm. JC ain't going any place.

 

[Mongoose]

Do the Mavs have cap space to sign Mistake Mike or would it need to be a sign and trade?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It all depends on what happens next. Who does Memphis draft? What does NOLA do with the cap room along with their future picks?

If it was me, I would have used future picks and the cap room to target a big acquisition if I was Memphis. I wouldn't have left it to the draft. Like you said, they are stocked with solid talent throughout the roster. They had solid expiring players like JV and Anderson. They have an extra 1st in 2022 and another extra 1st in 2024.

New Orleans traded 2 contracts nobody wanted and the worst 1st in their arsenal to slide back 7 spots.

They have three first next year, ours, Lakers, and their own. They still have expiring salary… they weren’t getting a big FA… it’s Memphis. They should shoot the moon in the draft… the free agent you keep mentioning ain’t out there. Please don’t mention collins. He will only be available if Atlanta decides to sign a and trade him… in which case they just bolstered their case to do that.

 

[zyzz]

Twolves are open to moving Jarrett Culver for a second round pick. Apparently his shot is super broken and he plays pretty good defense. What a whiff that trade-up and selection was…

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Culver is a guy I would like to try out, but the Jazz just arent in position to pay Culver his rookie contract for a guy who likely sucks for real for real.

 

[LoPo]

I also don’t love the fit with JV and Zion. A center next to Zion ideally can shoot threes and protect the rim… he has limitations similar to Giannis until he can shoot… he doesn’t have the elite defense of Giannis which makes it even tougher. He’s a great talent but unique.

They have drafted Jaxon Hayes, traded for Adams, and now JV… they gonna turn JV to Lopez on offense? Takes away from his roll game and offensive rebounding… maybe they think they can just bludgeon people on the offensive glass but I just don’t think they have a great plan. They haven’t earned a lot of confidence thus far.

Just the SVG hire alone is so dumb. The guy doesn’t hide who he is… literally was on Le Batard talking about how he worries about on court almost exclusively and wasn’t all concerned with young guys feelings and such. Griff has been rough… I don’t trust him to make the next moves with the chess board he’s set up.

I love the start of the offseason for New Orleans (dumping SVG and this trade), but I'm interested to see where they go from here.

If I was them, I would be trading JV to Charlotte. If NOLA could get #11 for JV and #17, I would do it. Maybe NOLA switches places with Charlotte on some 2nd rounders. Regardless, that's what I would do if I was NOLA.

Without JV, New Orleans would have about $60 million in contracts. So $50 million or so in space. They would have to decide on what to do with Hart and Lonzo. They could look to add Lowry, but I wouldn't. I'd be patient. I'd find out if SGA was truly available in OKC. I'd monitor John Collins. I'd look at Gary Trent Jr.

 

[oneye]

Twolves are open to moving Jarrett Culver for a second round pick. Apparently his shot is super broken and he plays pretty good defense. What a whiff that trade-up and selection was…

I'd take Culver for a second rounder, unfortunately we spent that on Matt f****** Thomas who's just going to be cut this offseason. Thanks Dennis!

 

[LoPo]

They have three first next year, ours, Lakers, and their own. They still have expiring salary… they weren’t getting a big FA… it’s Memphis. They should shoot the moon in the draft… the free agent you keep mentioning ain’t out there. Please don’t mention collins. He will only be available if Atlanta decides to sign a and trade him… in which case they just bolstered their case to do that.

I was saying what I would have done instead of what they did.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'd take Culver for a second rounder, unfortunately we spent that on Matt f****** Thomas who's just going to be cut this offseason. Thanks Dennis!

He makes too much for a project. Unless they want Favs and a second for him.