Jazz Offseason Plan

[campaignist]

That’s not even the debate have you been reading at all? It’s Donovan vs Booker.

Losing Conley and trading Donovan for Lillard makes us worse. That is a guarantee.

No, some people are in fact saying Mitchell is better than Lilliard, have *you* been reading? Not that we shouldn’t hypothetically trade DM for Dame, but that DM is a better player right now. And the original argument wasn’t about if Booker or Mitchell was better, just that they’re on a comparable level, which some people can’t handle admitting is true.

 

[Mongoose]

It’s not just chip or failure imo. It’s give yourself the best chance at a chip or failure. In athletics it’s like playing your best game and getting beat… that isn’t necessarily failure imo. Showing up and being unprepared or not giving your best effort is failure . We had a lot of chances to improve. We didn’t make good moves around the edges this year… there were easy moves to make… we essentially hit a few step back threes and blew a couple layups.

For those overly positive on the job the front office did… the head honcho got the axe. Not that owners always get it right but Ryan doesn’t share your same outlook. Many of the front office members were apparently divided in some of the decisions we did. Not many number 1 seeds fire their GM. We can be highly critical of the front office moves this last year even though the got some things right in the past… you can say that M Night Shamyalan is a ****** film maker… even though Sixth Sense is awesome. That’s the movie that gets him the ability to make more movies… but keep ****ing up and eventually we take away the keys.

DL royally screwed up the stuff around the edges last offseason. Sorry if that isn’t pie in the sky positive… I see how awesome we were and know we could have been so much better too. It’s been a pattern that we are routinely lacking something we should already have and address it a season too late.

It's ****ing insane how much DL has been skipping steps with his PG rentals. The jazz have the audacity to comparing themselves to following the Spurs model of success to then Warriors model to the Raptors to next year the Suns or Bucks... The Jazz have had every major ingredient you'd want for years, but they keep ****ing it up. Unfortunately acquiring Conley was a major **** up- that depleted way too many resources. He kept digging the jazz into a hole this year by screwing up around the edges and going over the cap- was the dude just cashing it in? wtf?

 

[campaignist]

Why did this thread turn into the Dame/Don/Booker debate?

I thought this thread was for whining about the FO’s overly cautious and depressing plan for the offseason.

Because when I argued for a Mitchell for Lilliard trade, I purposely added the part about Mitchell and Booker being comparable, because I wanted to watch people freak the **** out. It worked marvelously.

 

[LoPo]

Lopo is honestly the most pathetic person on here.

Conley has put up two amazing playoffs series for the Jazz, but the dude will nitpick the **** out of them.

Jrue Holiday is having an awful post-season, but he wants to big up HOliday to put him on a pedestal over COnley, just to prove his little bitch *** point.

You dont know basketball in the slightest. You just want to be right so badly to the point that you quit posting because Conley and the Jazz were playing so well.

Keep taking your shots Cy.

We were 1-1 without Conley last postseason. 2-3 with him.
Our record when Conley plays the last two postseasons - 6-5.
This postseason, we lost Round 1 Game 1 when Don sat and Conley had a chance at home to lead us.
Take away our series as the 1 seed vs the 8 seed, we are 2-4 when he plays in the series that we lost.
Oh, and he missed 7 games due to injury in those two series.
That's not good. Actually, that's pretty bad. We were 3-4 in the playoff series we lost without Conley and 2-4 with him. I would rather have him than not, but just like the regular season, we actually win more without Conley than with him.

Jrue Holiday is one of the main reasons the Bucks made the finals even though they lost an MVP calibur player. Great example of some stats being overrated.

I prove to you all the time that I know as much about basketball as you do.

 

[slc]

If Jazz trade Donovan for Damian which I don't think will happen then
Jazz better win a championship next year guaranteed
Damian is elite but he still does not have a ring

 

[Elizah Huge]

Conley is better than Holiday. Can you imagine how much better the Bucks offense would be with him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I can admit when I'm wrong and I don't make stuff up.

C'mon man.

This wasn’t an accusation… just a random thought

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah, to be clear there was some embellishment and not every single thing was dead on, but....

I hate this mentality of "well we could have it worse, look at all the stuff we got out of it". Well we didn't get a chip and that's why you do it.

Is that a tough bar to set of "chip or failure"? Sure, but SO many of our issues (no wing defenders, paying Fav's too much and drafting Doke etc etc) were pretty obvious to many people, yet we ran in headfirst to the playoffs happy having already wrapped up the ole consolation prize of regular season hero's.

I just dont really get a ton out best record, 3 all-stars, 6th man, DPOY (actually, listing them all out and then knowing we got bounced yet again in the semi's hurts worse) when it all amounts to the same result as a ton of other teams.

*shrug*

This simply means some of our fans are spoiled.
You say you don't get much out of all our accomplishments this season.

Kings fans would absolutely be thrilled to suck as much as the jazz.

I had so so so much fun this season.
I will be extremely lucky to have as much fun next season.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Mongoose]

Conley is better than Holiday. Can you imagine how much better the Bucks offense would be with him.

Holiday has one major ability over Conley as do many younger/cheaper players... Avail-ability

 

[Elizah Huge]

Holiday has one major ability over Conley as do many younger/cheaper players... Avail-ability

That’s funny because he’s missed 10+ games in each of the last 3 seasons.

The Bucks also gave up 3 first round picks and two future first round pick swaps for Holiday.

We got Conley for crumbs compared to that terrible deal.

 

[fishonjazz]

If there are two things that have been proven, IMO, it’s that DL can build a good team, but cannot build a great team.

This wasn't proven. If Chris Paul was hurt for the playoffs and the suns got bounced then you could say that the suns gm cannot build a great team.

If the jazz had got Torrey Craig and Tucker instead of niang and Matt Thomas and the jazz lost in the playoffs with no Conley then we could still be criticizing the jazz moves.

Sometimes you need more than great general managing. Sometimes you need some luck too. The jazz didn't get that luck on the playoffs. Opposite in fact

What if we shop bogey, Clarkson, etc for some starting level perimeter defense and then next year in the playoffs we get bounced cause we can't get a bucket when it counts? Do you say, well the jazz did everything right and everything I asked for and it didn't work. I was wrong. Or do you just criticize something else?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Elizah Huge]

This simply means some of our fans are spoiled.
You say you don't get much out of all our accomplishments this season.

Kings fans would absolutely be thrilled to suck as much as the jazz.

I had so so so much fun this season.
I will be extremely lucky to have as much fun next season.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

We have been extremely spoiled as Jazz fans. I want to say we are right there with the Spurs as the most winningest franchises in the last two decades or something like that.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

What’s a big move? Moving Ingles, Clarkson, and/or especially Bogey doesn’t strike me as that “big” of a move. Swapping out a starter and rotation guy or two is just what you do when you flame out in the playoffs early. Tinker with it. Try something new.

Unless we knock the draft out of the park, or you think a couple aging, budget 3&D guys that likely won’t be in Quin’s playoff rotation if Bogey, Ingles, and Clarkson are still here (but that could reduce the regular season wear and tear) is going to be enough to push us to title contention, then by all means, let’s just see if we get lucky. I just don’t think we’re as close as many think.

I think our overall lack of athleticism and length kills us in certain matchups. The hydra gets flummoxed by even bad teams with a lot of length. I think we need a starter level long athletic dude that can guard 1-3, and a playoff rotation guy that is also long and athletic that can at least guard 3-4. I think we should add budget guys that do those things too, but that budget guys (whether vets, draft picks, or UFAs) alone are not going to make a big difference.

People may disagree, and that’s fine. I think we need more than just a reliable bench guythat we can throw in against certain matchups. I think we also need to improve the length and athleticism of our starting lineup and regular rotation, especially if we are trotting out two undersized guards as our starters every night.

We need the closest thing to a Mikal Bridges or a RoCo that we can find to start in Bogey’s place, and maybe a Delon Wright or Taurean Prince to come off the bench. Wanting to keep Bogey is just sentiment. He is a valuable player, but I think we can easily replace everything he does by committee. He is a worthy sacrifice for some defense.

Just advocating for a calculated risk or two when we know that things are going nuclear next year if things go poorly in the playoffs again.

Even if nothing comes to fruition, I’d appreciate at least hearing it reported that “the Jazz are exploring all avenues to improve perimeter defense in the starting lineup and bench.” Instead the headline is basically “We runnin’ it back, please come back Mike, does anyone that can shoot and play defense want to live in Utah for a minimum contract and maybe a couple minutes a night?”

Sorry to be so negative, but I truly believe this approach leads to a trade request from Don next summer.

I think big move is trading JC or Bogey… there just aren’t a lot of chips left on the table. DL was able to cash in picks and contracts for players before… now I think most of our moves will involve some roster pain… kinda plugging up holes but creating new ones.

I think Bojan is the piece that can net is something good and that we could replace but it’s a tough dance.

1- I think if we opened up a staring spot you could entice Batum, Gay, or another forward to come here for the taxpayer MLE… those offers we are competing with GS and LA teams so you need as much help as you can get.

2- You trade bogey for a couple players and some salary relief and get a more flexible roster and help to cover for reasonable injuries (if Don, Rudy or Mike are out for significant chunks of the playoffs you are screwed but we need to be able to cover for one or two other rotation players)

3- the trick is timing. You need to do the Bogey move around draft time and FA hasn’t opened up yet… even if a guy agrees he can change his mind. This hosed over San Antonio a few years ago when Morris was supposed to sign there and then they trade Bertans… in the end Morris said no and they ended up with Lyles.

I think you are right though… if you had Kenrich Williams and Rudy Gay you could cover what Bojan gives… then you add in a defender like Delon Wright and you are a little better and likely cheaper… weaving all those parts in is difficult… that’s what I mean by big… any significant move requires a few things to move and you don’t want to get caught in a pickle.

 

[LoPo]

Holiday has one major ability over Conley as do many younger/cheaper players... Avail-ability

And defense, even just good and not elite level defense, never has an off night.

Jrue is going to give you good play on one side of the court every single night.

 

[Miggs]

People should realize that perhaps we did pursue some of these guys like Craig and Tucker but they did not want to play in Utah for obvious reasons. I’m not saying every one of them, but it’s very possible that was the case. That they said no or that they said, I want to be on Milwaukee or Phoenix first and if those don’t work out, I’ll sign with that Jazz.

I mean, let’s be honest. The racial **** that’s happened here the last couple seasons doesn’t help. And if I’m a black guy, I probably am not running to Utah as my first or second choice.

 

[LoPo]

That’s funny because he’s missed 10+ games in each of the last 3 seasons.

The Bucks also gave up 3 first round picks and two future first round pick swaps for Holiday.

We got Conley for crumbs compared to that terrible deal.

We gave up two first rounders and our most recent 1st Grayson. And Crowder who has been to two straight finals since. Wouldn't call that crumbs.

The Bucks gave up more, but they have gotten more. Conley has missed more elimination series games (7) than he has played in (6). Jrue Holiday has played in more playoff games this postseason than Conley has the last two combined.

 

[Bodhi]

It’s not just chip or failure imo. It’s give yourself the best chance at a chip or failure. In athletics it’s like playing your best game and getting beat… that isn’t necessarily failure imo. Showing up and being unprepared or not giving your best effort is failure . We had a lot of chances to improve. We didn’t make good moves around the edges this year… there were easy moves to make… we essentially hit a few step back threes and blew a couple layups.

For those overly positive on the job the front office did… the head honcho got the axe. Not that owners always get it right but Ryan doesn’t share your same outlook. Many of the front office members were apparently divided in some of the decisions we did. Not many number 1 seeds fire their GM. We can be highly critical of the front office moves this last year even though the got some things right in the past… you can say that M Night Shamyalan is a ****** film maker… even though Sixth Sense is awesome. That’s the movie that gets him the ability to make more movies… but keep ****ing up and eventually we take away the keys.

DL royally screwed up the stuff around the edges last offseason. Sorry if that isn’t pie in the sky positive… I see how awesome we were and know we could have been so much better too. It’s been a pattern that we are routinely lacking something we should already have and address it a season too late.

This

All of this

 

[Elizah Huge]

We gave up two first rounders and our most recent 1st Grayson. And Crowder who has been to two straight finals since. Wouldn't call that crumbs.

The Bucks gave up more, but they have gotten more. Conley has missed more elimination series games (7) than he has played in (6). Jrue Holiday has played in more playoff games this postseason than Conley has the last two combined.

Yeah they also traded Bledsoe and Hill with two extra first round pick swaps. Imagine if we did that.

Conley wouldn’t have missed any games if they let Donovan play Game 1 which we then sweep and him pulling his hammy doesn’t happen in Game 5 because there is no Game 5. Like we are seriously going to rag on a guy for getting injured? Look at Chris Paul for an example. Guess we shouldn’t want him because he always gets injured.

 

[whatthe]

Our team couldn't get Rudy going on offense. That's what happened in the playoffs. If you hurt Rudy on defense then we should have made them pay on offense.

 

[oneye]

“Would you flip Donovan for Dame right now”
Zach Harper: another Yes.

Seems like the answer from those around the league is a resounding YES you do that deal if it’s available.