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KqWIN said:
Once again, I think Lofton is probably better off with less weight…I’m not arguing against him losing weight and the historical record is one of those reasons. Most players in the NBA need to gain weight and I can’t think of anyone who utilizes their weight more than Lofton. Is he optimal? Probably not, but I do believe we are stressing about his weight too much. Overall I’d say his size is positive for him (even if not perfect) because without being on the larger he has no game.

I just don’t think he’s “X amount of weight” from being good. Realistically, he’s going to be good and bad at the same things if/when he loses X amount of fat unless he improves his actual skill level. We hyper fixate on optimizing his body type because he’s unique, I get it, but there are more important things to his development. To your point in the first sentence, it’s going to mean a lot more if he can become a reliable shooter than if he’s 15-20 lbs lighter.
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I was just asking for one example of a dude that lost some fluff and it was bad. I mean Julius Randle is definitely a bully ball guy and he slim’d up over a couple offseason and it seems to have benefited him.

It may not matter in the end we agree… just thought it would be a fun exercise to name one or two guys that should have stayed fat.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Zion and Chuck were also above the rim players....
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Okay… so they can’t be 7 footers, above the rim, or someone like Julius Randle or Kyle Lowry for reasons unknown I suppose. Go ahead and name some guys that were better when they were fat.
 
If Kenny is only good cuz he’s fat… then go ahead and cut him now… it won’t end well.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If Kenny is only good cuz he’s fat… then go ahead and cut him now… it won’t end well.
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That's what you sign them for. To see for yourself up close.

There are up to 150 2-way contracts in the NBA. The in-season free agent market is sparse. The Jazz are taking a look at him because he possesses a great deal of talent.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Shaq won championships when he put the weight on compared to his Orlando days.
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One of these is shaq in LA and one is 20-23 yo shaq in Orlando

27.2/12.5/2.8 blks/2.4 ast
27/11.8/2.5/3.1

He was the same player other than passing and better teammates as a young player and a vet. But yeah... nailed it.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
One of these is shaq in LA and one is 20-23 yo shaq in Orlando

27.2/12.5/2.8 blks/2.4 ast
27/11.8/2.5/3.1

He was the same player other than passing and better teammates as a young player and a vet. But yeah... nailed it.
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Haha, Cy just can't help himself sometimes. If Shaq could have stayed at his slimmer magic weight when he was in his prime then it would have been downright scary. Watching him those first few years with the magic were so much fun. Humans that big and strong should not be able to move that way. If he could have stayed that weight while refining his post moves then I can't even imagine how dominant he would have been.

 
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Boozer was listed at 280 in college (junior year) and 258 for the Jazz. Don’t know how reliable those numbers are, but I thought he looked lighter and more chiseled with the Jazz. Also quicker. More explosive. Didn’t lack for strength.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I was just asking for one example of a dude that lost some fluff and it was bad. I mean Julius Randle is definitely a bully ball guy and he slim’d up over a couple offseason and it seems to have benefited him.

It may not matter in the end we agree… just thought it would be a fun exercise to name one or two guys that should have stayed fat.
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Well, I never said it was bad. So I don’t know what you want for me. Argue for something I’ve directly said the opposite of multiple times?

I don’t really see the value in the exercise to begin with, honestly. Many players lose/gain (mostly gain) weight during their developmental years and it’s impossible to attribute that to their change in weight or just normal development. Players usually lose weight early in their careers when they would be developing anyways, so there’s just a bunch of confounding variables at play.

There have been many players who lost the weight but it didn’t do much for their careers (or maybe it did, who know). Losing weight didn’t make Luka Garza an NBA player, or Jah, or McGary. These are just a few off the top of my head. Did it make them better? Idk, but I think Lofton is the same where his weight is not going to determine if he’s an NBA player or not.

Again, that’s not to say it was bad. But we make a mountain out of a molehill with this stuff. It dominates the conversation around Lofton but it is not going to be what makes or breaks him as a player.
 
Greasy84 said:
Boozer was listed at 280 in college (junior year) and 258 for the Jazz. Don’t know how reliable those numbers are, but I thought he looked lighter and more chiseled with the Jazz. Also quicker. More explosive. Didn’t lack for strength.
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Seems highly unlikely he was 280 at Duke looking at pictures.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'm really not.

"its a good thing shaq gained that bad weight otherwise he'd suck like he did in Orlando"

-Cy (I guess)
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He was better in LA when he was fatter. You asked for an example and got incredibly pathetic when someone provided you with a valid one.

If the opposite happened and he lost weight and then won rings you'd be saying that.
 
KqWIN said:
Well, I never said it was bad. So I don’t know what you want for me. Argue for something I’ve directly said the opposite of multiple times?

I don’t really see the value in the exercise to begin with, honestly. Many players lose/gain (mostly gain) weight during their developmental years and it’s impossible to attribute that to their change in weight or just normal development. Players usually lose weight early in their careers when they would be developing anyways, so there’s just a bunch of confounding variables at play.

There have been many players who lost the weight but it didn’t do much for their careers (or maybe it did, who know). Losing weight didn’t make Luka Garza an NBA player, or Jah, or McGary. These are just a few off the top of my head. Did it make them better? Idk, but I think Lofton is the same where his weight is not going to determine if he’s an NBA player or not.

Again, that’s not to say it was bad. But we make a mountain out of a molehill with this stuff. It dominates the conversation around Lofton but it is not going to be what makes or breaks him as a player.
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I'm not sure why you are arguing with me lol. I was curious if someone had an actual example. I can't think of one. Not trying some gotcha.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I was just asking for one example of a dude that lost some fluff and it was bad. I mean Julius Randle is definitely a bully ball guy and he slim’d up over a couple offseason and it seems to have benefited him.

It may not matter in the end we agree… just thought it would be a fun exercise to name one or two guys that should have stayed fat.
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Saint Cy of JFC said:
He was better in LA when he was fatter. You asked for an example and got incredibly pathetic when someone provided you with a valid one.

If the opposite happened and he lost weight and then won rings you'd be saying that.
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I asked for an example of a guy that lost fluff and it was a bad thing. You gave me an example of a player that gained fluff and one that many ask "if he would have taken better care of himself how much better would he be".
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I asked for an example of a guy that lost fluff and it was a bad thing. You gave me an example of a player that gained fluff and one that many ask "if he would have taken better care of himself how much better would he be".
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So is better peak play or longevity? How much you trying to move the goal post?
 
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