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Jazz to do Arena upgrades

♪alt13 said:
Did you ever go to Crossroads or ZCMI?(or main while they were still up) I'm pretty impressed with what City Creek has done for downtown. The residential component was huge for the city as was opening up the blocks. Regent street is reworking itself from a **** alleyway into a really cool mid block street from City Creek to Gallivan. It would not have happened if the church didn't line its mall up with that street.

I'm not big on the mall either but what the lds church did for downtown was really cool and no one else could have gotten it done or would have bothered to try.
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really cool? Constructing a mall whose very design is to frame & set off the adjacent church buildings?

The entire cascade of events leading up to Gateway and concluding in City Creek is straight LOL. I ****ing hate it.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
No, it has nothing to do with the criticism of a team, but the manner in which it's done.

And you ARE a robot, programmed to say anything negative the team does. ARENA UPGRADES. Matches turd of team. TRADE UP. Turd of a decision. TRADE DOWN. Turd of a decision. STAYED PAT. Turd of a decision. MADE TRADE. Turd of a decision. YOU are the robot, Franklin. The troll robot. If you REALLY thought about changing teams, or disliked the team or didn't want to troll the fan base, the appropriate action is apathy, which means you leave and don't care.
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in other words, [MENTION=578]franklin[/MENTION], he wants you to GTFO for subtle fascist reasons, not for blunt fascist reasons.
 
[MENTION=578]franklin[/MENTION] is easily in the 90th percentile of JFC with respect to the quality and accuracy of his takes over the past 5+ years. A quick perusal of this thread indicates that all the people who are lining up to give him another push out the door are well behind him.
 
NAOS said:
[MENTION=578]franklin[/MENTION] is easily in the 90th percentile of JFC with respect to the quality and accuracy of his takes over the past 5+ years. A quick perusal of this thread indicates that all the people who are lining up to give him another push out the door are well behind him.
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Look, I hate to interrupt your love fest with Frank, but what he's bringing to the table right now isn't a quality take.

I currently have complaints as a Jazz fan. Complaints are fine. Bitching and moaning that you need to find a new team, only to stick around and continue to talk Jazz basketball is completely different. It's 7th grade, schoolyard nonsense. It's a bluff that he has ZERO intention following through on. It's a mentality reserved for crazy ex-girlfriends and parents who count to 3 only to let their child continue their bad behavior.

All I'm asking for is, sack up and do what you say you're gonna do. He's the one that went down this road. Now let's see him follow through on it.
 
jazzman12 said:
Look, I hate to interrupt your love fest with Frank, but what he's bringing to the table right now isn't a quality take.

I currently have complaints as a Jazz fan. Complaints are fine. Bitching and moaning that you need to find a new team, only to stick around and continue to talk Jazz basketball is completely different. It's 7th grade, schoolyard nonsense. It's a bluff that he has ZERO intention following through on. It's a mentality reserved for crazy ex-girlfriends and parents who count to 3 only to let their child continue their bad behavior.

All I'm asking for is, sack up and do what you say you're gonna do. He's the one that went down this road. Now let's see him follow through on it.
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When I said 5+ years I thought it'd be clear that I wasn't evaluating him on a short-term scale. Is it clearer now?

As far as his intentions are concerned, can you please provide a link to the part where you learned exactly what those are? tia
 
jazzman12 said:
Look, I hate to interrupt your love fest with Frank, but what he's bringing to the table right now isn't a quality take.

I currently have complaints as a Jazz fan. Complaints are fine. Bitching and moaning that you need to find a new team, only to stick around and continue to talk Jazz basketball is completely different. It's 7th grade, schoolyard nonsense. It's a bluff that he has ZERO intention following through on. It's a mentality reserved for crazy ex-girlfriends and parents who count to 3 only to let their child continue their bad behavior.

All I'm asking for is, sack up and do what you say you're gonna do. He's the one that went down this road. Now let's see him follow through on it.
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You mean my intentions of creating a 16 page thread where the most well versed Jazzfanz came in and crushed the schoolboys with blind loyalty?

Or was it my intention to have DL play damage control by calling Gordon Monson and having him immediately write an article in response to my criticisms?

Or is it that you do not believe the Jazz are, once again, on the verge of losing a huge swath of the fanbase like they did post SnM? Would that be good for you and I as fans?

Or is it that I just wanted to play around in the offseason with a thread that has very valid merit yet is controversial here?

Or is it that my intentions are in fact real and I would like to discuss them with fellow jazzfanz first? Is that okay with you? That I use an internet message board to discuss the main topic of the message board? Is that okay with you [MENTION=422]jazzman12[/MENTION] or should I just jump off the bridge and never look back because my discussions bother you?
 
NAOS said:
really cool? Constructing a mall whose very design is to frame & set off the adjacent church buildings?

The entire cascade of events leading up to Gateway and concluding in City Creek is straight LOL. I ****ing hate it.
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The mistakes in downtown SLC happened way before City Creek. Was the church responsible for some of them? Yes, but there wasn't much they could do about that in 2010 other than try again. Yeah they provided some views for their temple so ****in what. They also put a 385' condo tower across the street from the temple, another 220' residential building fronting Regent street, and have plans for a third on 100 south. They reduced the number of retail stores within the malls and opened them up to property to the south that they don't own. It has spurred development in a downtown that was on life support before they started. It's been nice to finally have a downtown that isn't completely dominated by for lease signs. I was super skeptical when they announced plans to redevelop and I'm not an LDS fanboy by any stretch but I'll give them their due when they earn it. In this instance they have earned it.
 
jazzman12 said:
The news of stadium upgrades actually bums me out. I'd rather see them stand pat and then build a new stadium in about a decade. I remember just a couple of years ago, while they we're making huge upgrades to the locker rooms and adding the new Jumbotron, Randy Rigby said they felt that with the upgrades, they could get 20 more years out of that arena.

Depending on what they do now, I may not see a new arena in my lifetime.
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It's a great arena for basketball. Have you been to one you like more? Why build a new one?
 
♪alt13 said:
The mistakes in downtown SLC happened way before City Creek. Was the church responsible for some of them? Yes, but there wasn't much they could do about that in 2010 other than try again. Yeah they provided some views for their temple so ****in what. They also put a 385' condo tower across the street from the temple, another 220' residential building fronting Regent street, and have plans for a third on 100 south. They reduced the number of retail stores within the malls and opened them up to property to the south that they don't own. It has spurred development in a downtown that was on life support before they started. It's been nice to finally have a downtown that isn't completely dominated by for lease signs. I was super skeptical when they announced plans to redevelop and I'm not an LDS fanboy by any stretch but I'll give them their due when they earn it. In this instance they have earned it.
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I'd argue that they (and by this I mean something like 'a coterie of LDS developers as well as church officials', working in some kind of cahoots) were a primary force in pushing downtown SLC onto life support in the first place (but not before taxpayers paid for trax thru main street, of course). Better to depress prices and hope before you pay for your own (undemocratic) vision (cf. the earlier Main Street heist).

I'm most familiar with the changes from the late 90s through mid-00s (while I lived in DT SLC); and based on what I saw and heard, I'm refusing to give the church and the associated business interests any claps. And I think City Creek is tacky in multiple ways.
 
NAOS said:
I'd argue that they (and by this I mean something like 'a coterie of LDS developers as well as church officials', working in some kind of cahoots) were a primary force in pushing downtown SLC onto life support in the first place (but not before taxpayers paid for trax thru main street, of course). Better to depress prices and hope before you pay for your own (undemocratic) vision (cf. the earlier Main Street heist).

I'm most familiar with the changes from the late 90s through mid-00s (while I lived in DT SLC); and based on what I saw and heard, I'm refusing to give the church and the associated business interests any claps. And I think City Creek is tacky in multiple ways.
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I think it was pretty cool of the Church to lease the land under Abravanel Hall and the some of the convention center to the county for $1 a year and lock in the price for the county in 1984 if the county ever wanted to buy it. The county just used that generous clause to purchase the property for a 6th of its current value.

That doesn't really fit your narrative well. Srsly can you give a single example that would support your conspiracy theory or is this just blind hatred for the church.
 
♪alt13 said:
I think it was pretty cool of the Church to lease the land under Abravanel Hall and the some of the convention center to the county for $1 a year and lock in the price for the county in 1984 if the county ever wanted to buy it. The county just used that generous clause to purchase the property for a 6th of its current value.

That doesn't really fit your narrative well. Srsly can you give a single example that would support your conspiracy theory or is this just blind hatred for the church.
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it's not blind hatred. I think the temple is beautiful (and I'm directly descended from one of the masons who was brought over to help build it, so there's personal interest, too). It's fine that it's showcased; it's easily the most interesting building downtown. That doesn't mean that mall views aren't tacky and weird.

Gateway never should have happened. The arguments are too old for me to remember in detail, so you'll blame me of conspiracy-theory-level dross. The fact that it's struggling now was foreseeable so long ago. But at least it drained life from Main Street long enough for the prices to plummet (even though it had been given a ton of development dollars through trax, etc.)
 
I have only been to city creek a couple times. I thought it was pretty damn cool. Love the river running through it and all the open outdoor areas. The waterfall is really cool. The walkway going over the main road is neat.

Too pricey for me to actually shop but I thought it was fun to walk around in.
 
Do people really care about arenas that much? Would an arena that is top of the line convince you to go to more games vs an average arena?



Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
 
Maybe they should install a retractable roof. Basketball in a snowstorm while the jumbotron and other electronics short circuit might be interesting... once.
 
NAOS said:
it's not blind hatred. I think the temple is beautiful (and I'm directly descended from one of the masons who was brought over to help build it, so there's personal interest, too). It's fine that it's showcased; it's easily the most interesting building downtown. That doesn't mean that mall views aren't tacky and weird.

Gateway never should have happened. The arguments are too old for me to remember in detail, so you'll blame me of conspiracy-theory-level dross. The fact that it's struggling now was foreseeable so long ago. But at least it drained life from Main Street long enough for the prices to plummet (even though it had been given a ton of development dollars through trax, etc.)
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I agree about the Gateway but I don't know of any big acquisitions on Main since the Gateway opened. IIRC the church already owned both ZCMI and Crossroads. Most of the property was in the same hands when gateway opened as when city creek opened. The biggest change that I can think of was the new federal courthouse. Other acquisitions haven't been by Mormons. Some Iranian millionaire dude owns Trolley square now.
 
♪alt13 said:
I agree about the Gateway but I don't know of any big acquisitions on Main since the Gateway opened. IIRC the church already owned both ZCMI and Crossroads. Most of the property was in the same hands when gateway opened as when city creek opened. The biggest change that I can think of was the new federal courthouse. Other acquisitions haven't been by Mormons. Some Iranian millionaire dude owns Trolley square now.
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Most of this last round has happened long after I moved away; and I honestly haven't paid much attention. From a distance, it looked like everything was happening according to the fate that was set in motion when the Gateway project got approved. I could be totally wrong, but I remember stories about acquisitions. Anywhoo...
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Maybe they should install a retractable roof. Basketball in a snowstorm while the jumbotron and other electronics short circuit might be interesting... once.
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Could be the key to beating Golden State. So you like shooting 3's? Try shooting them with wind!
 
King Cy said:
Do people really care about arenas that much? Would an arena that is top of the line convince you to go to more games vs an average arena?



Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
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Not me. Cheap tickets does though
 
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